"Batman: The Long Halloween, Part Two" Animated Release Talkback (Spoilers)

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That's an interesting take on Ivy's brainwashing where she puts you in this idyllic, almost Elysium, field where you do nothing but desire her. And it doesn't seem like Ivy controls people through pheromones' or a hypnotic kiss, but through her plant :evil:.

I thought it was in bad taste that Carmine sicced Ivy on Bruce at Alberto's funeral, but using visiting his son's grave as an excuse to meet a hitman? Although there were at least other points where it seemed like he genuinely felt bad for what happened to Alberto. Maybe :rolleyes:.

Katee Sachoff was a solid Poison Ivy here, and I really liked her design. Also some things never change even when a universe reboots where once again Catwoman has to come in and take Poison Ivy out with one hit :harley:.

How much of a difference would it have made had Bruce and Batman been out there all those months Holiday kept killing with impunity :knd1:?

Some interesting symmetry in this duology. A young Bruce Wayne got the coin from a dying Carmine Falcone that his father saved, Batman gave the coin to Harvey, and Harvey as Two-Face used the coin to kill Carmine :(.

They sure got a lot of mileage out of Robert Atkin Downes in these movies. First he's Scarecrow, then he's Thomas Wayne, and then he's the guy trying to off Harvey :p.

Interesting take on the Waynes in this movie with their ties to the Falcone. It doesn't outright make them criminals or part of the mob like, say, the Telltale games, but their connections to the Falcones, even if benign and for a good cause, end up being seen as a black mark on their name. But I guess it does lend itself to one of the movies main themes about how difficult it is to hold on to one's integrity in the fight for good and how sometimes something good can come through evil means or people. Shades of grey :ack:.

Well, they were probably going to have to show the Wayne Murders at some point, what better way than a Fear Toxin induced hallucination? Although surprisingly they seemed pretty definitive that the killing was a mob hit brought on because Thomas helped save Carmine, and that Joe Chill was never caught :confused:.

They exchange the Bruce Wayne: Fugitive plot for one scene where Harvey and Jim interrogate Bruce at Wayne Manor. It was nice to get a Bruce Wayne as Bruce Wayne in public scene and the different personalities at play, and a Harvey and Bruce that aren't buddy-buddy, and Alfred making some scathing remarks to the duo when they leave the manor was pretty poignant. Also goes to show, ala Year One, that Bruce pays a lot of people off to create alibi's and covers for himself as Batman :proud:.

I did like how the movie humanized the criminals. Like, Carmine Falcone is poised as this brutal, vicious, crime boss, and terrible father but on another level you see him as a man with integrity, loyalty, and an old man trying to stay relevant in a changing world. He also seems to realize at times how badly he screwed his family up, with Alberto's death, how he treated Sofia, and driving their mother away. And he had a daughter he never even knew about until his last moments :sad:.

Even Sal Maroni, the guy betrayed Harvey and basically instigated his Two-Face transformation, but we see him as a son who witnessed his father get murdered before his eyes and so he tries to get, what is in his eyes, righteous revenge and to make peace with Carmine. And while it's not focused on much, his relationship with Sofia seems genuine. I also liked the contrast between him, his father, and Carmine where his dad seems like old Italian and Carmine also seems more at home in the culture than Sal does when his father has to correct his Italian :elle: .

It was nice to see Sofia Falcone in animation and she's still as tough and loyal a lady as ever...kind of a shame what happened to her entire family, although she never mentioned visiting Alberto's grave so I kind of wonder if she cared about him at all :confused:.

Mad Hatter still kept his Alice in Wonderland quote gimmick from the comic, and is absurdly short, but Scarecrow exchanges nursery rhymes for...just talking normally. Like that one scene of them together and Tetch is going at it and you can kind of see even Crane is getting a little weirded out by it :rolleyes2:.

I appreciated adding more build-up to Harvey becoming Two-Face, to the point where we hear Two-Face's voice in Harvey's head before the accident even happens and scars him. I do feel like it maybe would have made more sense for his voice to appear in Part One, after maybe the bombing of the Dent house, because it didn't seem like there was a proper enough instigating incident to "wake" Two-Face up aside from Harvey getting knocked out. They did mention his mental instability in Part One though, but they maybe could have showed it more...also, Josh Duhamel has a surprisingly great Two-Face voice :D.

Maroni mentioned Killer Croc and Killer Moth in the prior movie, but we don't see them in the Arkham breakout...are they at large? I guess the real reason is Croc was never in this story and they had Grundy as the resident sewer dweller :sweat:.

Even if Two-Face made it seem more exaggerated than it really was, people in the court laughing while Sal Maroni jokes about killing a bunch of people felt in bad taste :confused:.

I see Two-Face learned to speak Grundy by just using the Grundy nursery rhyme. Grundy talks repetitively but there's meaning there ;).

I love how Harvey as Two-Face goes to the trouble of getting a double-colored suit just for the sake of the Supervillain gimmick. He really went all out :anime:.

Calendar Man being the only villain that didn't get broken out because he called tails on the coin toss was priceless. Also the Taco Tuesday line. And did it seem like he really wanted to be out there with Batman to anyone else :oops:?

It pretty much clinches Holiday's identity, for both the audience, Harvey, and Batman, when you see the look in Two-Face's eyes when Gordon tells him they found the gun in his basement and he puts two-and-two together (maybe before Batman does). And the finisher is when he actually protects Holiday :(.

I like that they kept the moment of Batman revealing himself to be disguised as a guard even if they changed the context :).

"I'm not looking for a partner!" That's what Dark Victory is for! Although all things considered, how would they handle a Dark Victory adaption? Alberto's dead, Mario would seem redundant with movie Alberto, and Sofia...might have survived? I guess they never said she was dead. And I don't know if the Hangman killer would work as well in the story without any familiarity with Year One. I feel like if they ever adapt Dark Victory they would probably have to change it more than they did Long Halloween o_O.

I wonder had Montoya not been there if Gilda would have been brazen enough to go directly at Falcone during the Supervillain attack. It seemed like part of the reason she was chafing at them being there to keep her safe was because she wanted to go out there to finish the job. And did she go out there to kill Maroni because of what he did to Harvey even though Batman and Gordon were there? It seems like the personal kills were the ones where she put herself out there the most and risked getting caught :confused:.

"You sanctimonious little @#$%" I love how that's Penguin's one line in the entire movie and he's just shooting stuff with his umbrella the entire time :p.

There wasn't really a dramatic fight between Batman and Two-Face, at least physically, and Batman doesn't even really stop him...but I guess they have Batman beating all of his main villains one-by-one made up for it :cool:.

Man, Catwoman was cold to Carmine in the end. At first you think she's unmasking so she can comfort her father, but then when he mentions "Louisa" because of how much, presumably, Selina looks like her mother, Selina immediately leaves him to die. She really only cared about getting her mother's name. I guess after losing Sofia too she just didn't care anymore, and now she has no family (unless Mario Falcone comes in out of the woodwork) :eek:.

So...Carmine realized Bruce Wayne was Batman in his last moments when Batman brings up what Carmine said to him as a kid? I guess in the end Bruce did respect Carmine on some level :(.

Now probably the most controversial part...the ending. I don't think it's as controversial that they were more definitive with Holiday's identity, or expanded on why they did it (we can debate the logistics another time), so much as the fact that the reveal also entails Batman having finally figured it out and seemingly let them go because Harvey is taking the fall and Batman is ready to put this case to bed. But in light of Alberto's killing, who was innocent if not in Gilda's eyes, doesn't it make it more glaring that Batman just lets her get away? Like, he could've stopped her from burning the evidence, although even then it seemed like Gilda was fully prepared to turn herself in and confess, because she didn't care anymore. But what would that do to Harvey? I guess there is some ambiguity at the end as to whether Batman ultimately did anything to her, let alone even tell Gordon, and Gilda's fate will probably be left ambiguous moving forward o_O.

Little kid as Batman for Halloween! Showing Batman has become an inspiration figure for Gotham City in light of the Long Halloween, and he's got Selina sleeping over too. So not a perfect ending for Bruce, but a relatively happy one :anime:.

As for that post-credit scene...well, I think that puts a definitive stamp that a shared universe of animated movies is definitively back on the table :proud:.
 

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