C&C - Blade Runner: Black Lotus - "The Human Condition" [11/20]

[Nobodyman]

"You're not a replicant. Or you're a replicant that does an exceptionally good job of acting human."

City of God? I thought that was a movie.

What's up, Doc?

 

[Kitschensyngk]

A hero to the people, in spite of all the sex scandals, kickbacks, and that time he used the N-word in a government email.

 

[Space Cadet]

"She had a data drive and a sword. Only one person in the neighborhood has that and it isn't Aunt Shirley down the street,"

 

[Nobodyman]

Is that the Sniper from Team Fortress 2?

I see they never invented the LCD screen in this timeline.

 

[Kitschensyngk]

Do all apartments in these Blade Runner movies look like Mayan temples?

They'll shoot anything undocumented.

 

[Space Cadet]

Man, this episode went by so fast.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

Do all apartments in these Blade Runner movies look like Mayan temples?

It's not an apartment. It's the interior of the Ennis House in Los Angeles.

 

[Yojimbo]

The Voight-Kampff Test is essentially a polygraph. I think in Blade Runner, Deckard had to use something like 100 questions to determine Rachel was an experimental Nexus 7 replicant. Here only a few were asked of Elle so... I don't think this episode proved anything to confirm she wasn't a replicant.

Definitely spending time on characterization for Niander in the 2049 movie.

 

[Daikun]

Another Blade Runner TV series is in development, this time live-action.

Ridley Scott: Live-Action ‘Blade Runner’ and ‘Alien’ TV Series Being Developed, Pilots Written

Ridley Scott has confirmed live-action TV series of "Blade Runner" and "Alien" are fast progressing, with pilots written for both shows.

variety.com

 

[PicardMan]

Okay, this show really had the misfortune to be coming out the same month as League of Legends: Arcane, which set the bar for CGI action toons ridiculously high. Fena sucking probably also led to this show's tepid reception. You really have to scroll down to find this show in the popular shows section on Crunchyroll. It has a crappy 6.06 MyAnimeList score and an even worse 5.6 IMDB score. These scores seem ridiculously unfair as a total turd Fena has a much better 7.22 score. It almost seems like this show's being punished for Fena's sins. It seems, ...okay, which I admit that I liked the beginning of Fena so a passable start doesn't mean it will finish passably, but Black Lotus and Fena should totally swap MAL scores. Adult Swim has been promoting this show like crazy on all the Turner networks and it feels like Toonami's banking its entire future on the success of this show. Things are just going terribly for Toonami in 2021.

 

[Yojimbo]

I think the kind of CG animation Black Lotus uses is usually not well liked by audiences in general anyway so that didn't help either. I wonder if the marathon coming up this week would have helped if it happened before Black Lotus premiered.

 

[PicardMan]

I think the kind of CG animation Black Lotus uses is usually not well liked by audiences in general anyway so that didn't help either. I wonder if the marathon coming up this week would have helped if it happened before Black Lotus premiered.

I hear it often compared to PS2 cutscenes and I know it was done by the same studio that did the maligned GITS SAC 2045. Pondering why Toonami went with Sola Diitial Arts despite how harshly received their previous work was. I think Netflix has wised up and quit funding so many CGI anime flops. Of course, Fena's animation was gorgeous, but that show ended up being ten times worse than this one. These Toonami originals flopping seem to be hurting the block rather than helping it. They might have had the money to keep JoJo if they didn't drain it on stuff like Fena.

 

[Yojimbo]

I hear it often compared to PS2 cutscenes and I know it was done by the same studio that did the maligned GITS SAC 2045. Pondering why Toonami went with Sola Diitial Arts despite how harshly received their previous work was. I think Netflix has wised up and quit funding so many CGI anime flops. Of course, Fena's animation was gorgeous, but that show ended up being ten times worse than this one. These Toonami originals flopping seem to be hurting the block rather than helping it. They might have had the money to keep JoJo if they didn't drain it on stuff like Fena.

I wonder why they didn't use the same animation studio that did Black Out. I would have preferred that.

 

[WickedChild]

Fena sucking probably also led to this show's tepid reception. You really have to scroll down to find this show in the popular shows section on Crunchyroll. It has a crappy 6.06 MyAnimeList score and an even worse 5.6 IMDB score. These scores seem ridiculously unfair as a total turd Fena has a much better 7.22 score. It almost seems like this show's being punished for Fena's sins.

No offense but - that's the silliest conclusion you could have come to. One show has nothing to do with the other. Nobody is comparing the other show when thinking about either one. There is nothing similar besides the fact that Crunchyroll produced both and AS aired them.

People don't like this show because it has zero redeeming qualities. Fena is at least decent, though its story admittedly fell apart in the last few episodes. At least it is visually phenomenal. People will always give the benefit of the doubt to a good-looking show. Which Black Lotus definitely is not.

Look, it's a shame that neither of these shows are doing well, but Adult Swim is at least smart enough to realize that original content is its only hope for a future. Streaming has already stolen most of its audience, and they know they have to associate their brand with quality content if they're gonna have a chance to compete. Hopefully by now they realize that they have to offer more than just beautiful Production I.G animation or a well known brand stamp to make people care. I don't know how many more chances they'll realistically have though.

 

[PicardMan]

No offense but - that's the silliest conclusion you could have come to. One show has nothing to do with the other. Nobody is comparing the other show when thinking about either one. There is nothing similar besides the fact that Crunchyroll produced both and AS aired them.

People don't like this show because it has zero redeeming qualities. Fena is at least decent, though its story admittedly fell apart in the last few episodes. At least it is visually phenomenal. People will always give the benefit of the doubt to a good-looking show. Which Black Lotus definitely is not.

Look, it's a shame that neither of these shows are doing well, but Adult Swim is at least smart enough to realize that original content is its only hope for a future. Streaming has already stolen most of its audience, and they know they have to associate their brand with quality content if they're gonna have a chance to compete. Hopefully by now they realize that they have to offer more than just beautiful Production I.G animation or a well known brand stamp to make people care. I don't know how many more chances they'll realistically have though.

Right now, it seems that the consensus is that Blade Runner Black Lotus is somewhere towards mediocrity with the PS2 quality CGI graphics being the big point of contention. I think I did overstate Fena poisoning the reputation of of Toonami originals as this show has plenty of problems other than the "Toonami Original" label. I do think Black Lotus's generic sci-fi action story is better executed than the total stupid story of Fena, but I guess that's like saying that well drawn stick figures are better than crappy attempts at something grander. This series seems to be a generic action story with a Blade Runner skin, it might be possible to substitute other sci-fi franchises where this story could happen. There doesn't seem to be much passion behind it at least.

As for further chances, I guess Shenmue's next in Toonami's batting order, but will it strike out too? It's riding on the coattails of an established IP, and the scary thing is that it's a videogame, and videogame anime adaptations seem to almost never be well received. We'll see.

 

[WickedChild]

Right now, it seems that the consensus is that Blade Runner Black Lotus is somewhere towards mediocrity with the PS2 quality CGI graphics being the big point of contention. I think I did overstate Fena poisoning the reputation of of Toonami originals as this show has plenty of problems other than the "Toonami Original" label. I do think Black Lotus's generic sci-fi action story is better executed than the total stupid story of Fena, but I guess that's like saying that well drawn stick figures are better than crappy attempts at something grander. This series seems to be a generic action story with a Blade Runner skin, it might be possible to substitute other sci-fi franchises where this story could happen. There doesn't seem to be much passion behind it at least.

Don't know whose supposed consensus that is, but "generic" and "mediocrity" are quite generous. The story is grade-school level, there's no real intrigue, the animation and artwork are objectively terrible, and the cast is a complete flatline. There's nothing at all to latch on to unless you're one of those anime fanboys who likes to pat himself on the back and pretend to be progressive for liking a show with a physically strong female lead. But sadly, Ghost in the Shell this is not. Even the music, one of Blade Runner's defining qualities, which should have been the easiest thing to get right, is entirely forgettable.

Fena, conversely, has a well set up globetrotting adventure with gorgeous and cool locations and a fun, likeable cast. It had everything going for it for at least 6-7 episodes (till it became sadly clear that the story was going nowhere, and it switched from interesting historical fiction to lame, tropey fantasy). First impressions are important, and Fena was much better in that regard than Black Lotus. It shouldn't be that surprising that people are much more forgiving of something that looks great and was a lot of fun for at least the first half.

 

[PicardMan]

Don't know whose supposed consensus that is, but "generic" and "mediocrity" are quite generous.

The various Toonami forums seem to tolerate the show, and it looks like the general anime community is far less receptive to it, looking at it's abysmal 22% Rotten Tomatoes audience rating (in contrast to its 67% critic rating). The Toonami fandom are just desperate for the block to stay alive and that's probably why they are more forgiving.

 

[Light Lucario]

I hear it often compared to PS2 cutscenes and I know it was done by the same studio that did the maligned GITS SAC 2045. Pondering why Toonami went with Sola Diitial Arts despite how harshly received their previous work was. I think Netflix has wised up and quit funding so many CGI anime flops. Of course, Fena's animation was gorgeous, but that show ended up being ten times worse than this one. These Toonami originals flopping seem to be hurting the block rather than helping it. They might have had the money to keep JoJo if they didn't drain it on stuff like Fena.

Nothing about the animation reminds me of video game cut scenes, but to be fair, I never played PS2 games or really any Playstation games. I have my doubts that using their budget to make original series made them unable to keep Jojo. It is possible, but Netflix would have more money to play around with than Toonami has regardless of their original series and getting a popular anime title like Jojo on their platform, especially when I think fans have been pretty eager for Part 6 for awhile, would be pretty appealing for Netflix too.

Don't know whose supposed consensus that is, but "generic" and "mediocrity" are quite generous. The story is grade-school level, there's no real intrigue, the animation and artwork are objectively terrible, and the cast is a complete flatline. There's nothing at all to latch on to unless you're one of those anime fanboys who likes to pat himself on the back and pretend to be progressive for liking a show with a physically strong female lead. But sadly, Ghost in the Shell this is not. Even the music, one of Blade Runner's defining qualities, which should have been the easiest thing to get right, is entirely forgettable.

I can understand these complaints, but it seems a bit harsh to write off the series so quickly. I do agree that there really isn't anything to latch onto. Unless you find the mystery of Elle interesting or already liked the world of Blade Runner, then it's probably hard to get invested in it. So far, I'd say that the series is more style than substance, which isn't necessarily bad, but it can be harder to become invested in a show like that. Black Lotus hasn't really wowed me yet, but it hasn't turned me off either, so I'm probably more willing to give it time to see where it lands.

Fena, conversely, has a well set up globetrotting adventure with gorgeous and cool locations and a fun, likeable cast. It had everything going for it for at least 6-7 episodes (till it became sadly clear that the story was going nowhere, and it switched from interesting historical fiction to lame, tropey fantasy). First impressions are important, and Fena was much better in that regard than Black Lotus. It shouldn't be that surprising that people are much more forgiving of something that looks great and was a lot of fun for at least the first half.

Aside from Fena and maybe Yukimaru, I'm not sure how much of the cast were fun and likable. They were pretty bland and generic. I agree the locations were nice and the idea of a pirate themed adventure sounded cool, but I can't really give the series much credit for those early episodes when it fell apart so hard for me. In retrospect, I was probably too forgiving of Fena from the start. That could be the case with Black Lotus too though, but right now, I just don't have any strong feelings about it either way.

Anyway, I thought that this episode was pretty good. Elle being hit by a stun gun and Joseph carrying her back to his apartment made sense. I recognized the test Joseph did to test if she was a replicant. I didn't watch Toonami's airings of the Blade Runner movies, but I'm pretty sure I've seen clips of at least the original movie online over the years.

Given how the senator was hunting replicants, not being around to legalize them might have been a good thing. The media praising an obviously terrible person after their death is also sadly pretty fitting.

I didn't really believe the results of the test when Elle being a replicant would probably fit better for this franchise than just making her a random super strong fighter. It did lead to an intense reaction when she learned the truth and she does have memory of her boyfriend giving her that tattoo. Overall, it was a pretty good episode.

 

[WickedChild]

I can understand these complaints, but it seems a bit harsh to write off the series so quickly. I do agree that there really isn't anything to latch onto. Unless you find the mystery of Elle interesting or already liked the world of Blade Runner, then it's probably hard to get invested in it. So far, I'd say that the series is more style than substance, which isn't necessarily bad, but it can be harder to become invested in a show like that. Black Lotus hasn't really wowed me yet, but it hasn't turned me off either, so I'm probably more willing to give it time to see where it lands.

It's a third of the way done. If after four episodes there's not a single character that doesn't put me to sleep, I've already given it way too much of my time. Here's the thing about the "mystery" of Elle - they solved it in episode two. And the answer wasn't interesting nor did it lead to more interesting story developments. It's a lame revenge story where she's getting revenge for people she didn't even know. I'm someone who loves the Blade Runner movies btw, and so far I've seen nothing to indicate that the creators of this show ever watched more than a few minutes of either. They're not action movies, they don't have dumb choreographed ninja fights, and revenge isn't something replicants would waste their time with.

 

[Light Lucario]

It's a third of the way done. If after four episodes there's not a single character that doesn't put me to sleep, I've already given it way too much of my time. Here's the thing about the "mystery" of Elle - they solved it in episode two. And the answer wasn't interesting nor did it lead to more interesting story developments. It's a lame revenge story where she's getting revenge for people she didn't even know. I'm someone who loves the Blade Runner movies btw, and so far I've seen nothing to indicate that the creators of this show ever watched more than a few minutes of either. They're not action movies, they don't have dumb choreographed ninja fights, and revenge isn't something replicants would waste their time with.

To be fair, there is still the mystery behind Elle's boyfriend and her tattoo. Since they already confirmed that she's a replicant so early on, I assume that there are going to be other twists about Elle, but I could easily be wrong and be giving the show too much benefit of the doubt, much like what happened with Fena.

But I still understand your points. If you really aren't into any series to any degree four episodes in, then it probably isn't worthwhile to keep forcing yourself to watch it. I can understand why you'd feel more intense about this if you are a fan of the movies. I've never seen any of them, so I don't have that same point of comparison. Like I mentioned before, I don't feel strongly about the series either way. Right now, I'm engaged enough with it to keep watching. It isn't anything to write home about, but it doesn't turn me off either, so I think that makes me more interested in seeing where the show goes.