"Hawkeye (Disney+ Limited Series)" Talkback (Spoilers)

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Yojimbo

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This Holiday Season, The Best Gifts Come with a Bow.

hawkeye.jpg
Hawkeye is set in post-blip New York City where Clint Barton aka Hawkeye has a seemingly simple mission: get back to his family for Christmas. But when a threat from his past shows up, Hawkeye reluctantly teams up with 22-year-old skilled archer Kate Bishop to unravel a criminal conspiracy. The series stars Jeremy Renner, Hailee Steinfeld, Vera Farmiga, Fra Fee, Tony Dalton, and newcomer Alaqua Cox. Episodes are directed by executive producer Rhys Thomas and directing duo Bert & Bertie; executive producer Jonathan Igla is head writer.

Episode 1 "Never Meet Your Heroes"
Archer Kate Bishop lands in the middle of a criminal conspiracy, forcing Hawkeye out of retirement.

Episode 2 "Hide and Seek"
Clint has to help Kate disentangle herself from the Tracksuit mafia and a real-life murder mystery.

Official Links
Hawkeye on Disney+
Hawkeye on Twitter
Hawkeye on Instagram
Hawkeye on Facebook

See Also
"Marvel on Disney+" Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 1 (Spoilers)
"Marvel on Disney+" Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 2 (Spoilers)
"Marvel on Disney+" Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 3 (Spoilers)
"Marvel on Disney+ "Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 4 (Spoilers)
"Marvel on Disney+ "Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 5 (Spoilers)
"Thor" Talkback (Spoilers)
"Avengers" Talkback (Spoilers)
"Avengers: Age of Ultron" Talkback (Spoilers)
"Captain America: Civil War" Talkback (Spoilers)
"Avengers: Infinity War" Talkback (Spoilers)
"Avengers: Endgame" Talkback (Spoilers)
"Black Widow" Talkback (Spoilers)
 
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Neo Ultra Mike

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"Never Meet Your Heroes" - You know I always felt bad for Clint Barton. Of all the original Avengers within the MCU he was the one always given the least not only screen time but it felt like dignity especially from a lot of the fans. Seemed like Captain America would of been that but after his first movie and especially with Winter Soldier most everyone was on board with Steve Rogers and yeah people instantly more gravitated towards Tony Star and Thor, with Bruce and Natasha having easily won over most fans by Avengers. Clint for some reason hadn't as even by Age of Ultron and Civil War he was still seen as for whatever reason sort of a joke or weakest link which I always felt was unfair. Not like he was ever my favorite but I got his purpose on the team and felt he brought it a level of grounded experience no one else really could. Admittedly between him and Natasha of characters to sacrifice in Endgame... i still feel neither should of died but probably would of preferred if Natasha lived but I get the point and was glad to see him finally get his own starring vehicle. Yeah it wasn't a movie but this was done to also give more focus to his character and honestly this sort of grounded hero could easily work in a more grounded sort of streaming series. And there's been a lot of great early buzz on this so I was really looking forward to these episodes and... though they aren't bad per se, certainly aren't what I expected nor really wanted. Especially since this doesn't seem as much of a Clint Barton show as a Kate Bishop series... with Clint around but not being the main star.

I mean yeah it was clear even from the marketing Kate was going to be a really important character and a lot of the point of this show was to see the two interact and like with Falcon and Winter Soldier you wanted a slow burn to that point thus not having it right off the jump especially as you needed to establish Kate first but... yeah at least in these first two episodes she's easily the main character. Especially with this episode; she gets the prologue explaining her origin, most of the set up is from her mother being engaged to this obviously shady Jack. and we follow a lot of her tracking him before getting involved in wearing the Ronin costume and fighting off the Tracksuit Mafia before at the end finally seeing her and Clint meet. Like really Clint only gets a couple of scenes here and though they are good scenes (honestly I kind of want a full version of that Avengers Musical song as it was really solid and the joke about Clint pointing out Ant Man wasn't there was funny and the scene of asking what his kids what they wanted to do for Christmas and trying to get Lila to hold hands with the rest of the family was cute) but so much of this falls on Kate to a sort of surprising degree. I kind of thought this round of the Disney+ series would be focused on the more "support" characters and then with Moon Knight, She Hulk, Miss Marvel we'd get into showing characters first introduced in the series a the focus but seems so much like it's the Kate series. Which does throw you off especially when she gets the first big action scene which... on one level I do appreciate I'll get to but is at least from a fight choreography level pretty unimpressive. I guess some shots like the bottle flip are kind of cool but the actual bar despite all the bottles being around doesn't offer much variety for combat and doesn't have the crunch that this sort of more realistic fight feels like it really should have. I know this can't get Daredevil level brutal nor should the Tracksuit Mafia be portrayed as too intimidating even within universe but it still feels a bit lacking. Not to mention they didn't explain Eleanor's whole security job well in either episode especially since it was established well her parents having finanical troubles in the beginning. I can get maybe getting some serious insurance money after the battle of new york but still feels like a weird jump.

I will say though once you get over the idea of it being Kate's show more it does work probably because they got Hailee Stienfeld to play her. I didn't see the true grit remake from 2010 but Hailee sold me right away when I saw her in Edge of Seventeen and though she didn't have that instant relatable charm here I do appreciate the character and her struggle. I like how she was inspired by Hawkeye and went through this training but they do show her over eagerness and ego well with her breaking the bell tower and though the first and even second fight weren't that great I am glad we are showing how over her head she is in these fights. Especially the second time getting cornered and knocked around some before having to hide in the locked car from the track suit mafia showing "yeah she may be well trained but this isn't like a super high level 12 badass who can instantly take out a room full of guys on skill alone" and showing she has obvious flaws she has to work out. I also liked some of her jokes like trying to blend in as a waitress and saying her boss is gary and the other guy getting Gary and her trying to pretend like he doesn't recognize her and fake quitting. One of the weaker starting episodes (In terms of entertianment probably better then WandaVision but that committed to it's unique premise better to make it feel more interesting for what it was) of these Disney plus show which heh may be another reason it was partnered with another but still a decent introduction of Kate. I will admit though...

"Hide And Seek" - This is by far the better episode. I do appreciate how this one actually nails down the connection really well between Kate and Clint and show how though she is an enthusastic fan she will smarm not to be pushed around even if it's clear she's still making a bunch of mistakes. Like following Clint and being captured in the end. Plus though it took awhile to get into I really did like Clint's annoyedness at having to be a part of the larp and having to fake his own "death" to get the Ronin suit and the guy being happy to have "defeated" an Avenger calling it the best moment of his life. And though it's obvious Jack is shady I do like that we aren't sure to what degree he is shady. I guess it's suppose to be implied he killed his uncle for his inheritance but I don't think it's that clear cut and I especially like him fencing with Kate and her trying to get him to admit how good a "Swordsman" he is and him just brushing off knocking the sword away by "okay guess I am more skilled then I let on." The introduction of Echo was pretty cool and I admit these Tracksuit mafia guys from even Laura knowing how idiotic they are in her call with Clint and one guy trying to say he's the leader when Clint was asking to speak to him was pretty funny. It is a rather unsatisfying ending though as I kind of felt I was finally getting fully into the series with Echo's introduction and now having to wait a week to see how that's resolved but hey Clint had more time to "shine" here and they got the connection with Kate pretty well so good episode. Hopefully things will heat up more for a more solid set of episodes now that the groundwork has been laid out and hopefully Clint will be a more active part of this torch passing then we've seen but still a solid set of episodes even if they aren't my favorite and I probably don't have the love most people have of this series right now.
 

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It was kind of surreal seeing this new take on Kate's family. Her older sister is completely excised, seemingly, and instead of being an out-of-touch tool who dabbles in villainy Derek Bishop seemed like a loving father who Kate adored. And instead of just happening by Hawkeye's gear like in the comics she emulates herself on him after seeing his efforts during the Battle of New York. Kind of reminded me of Young Justice's take on Arrowette :).

It was interesting seeing the Battle of New York again from the point of view of a child and the citizens on the ground, more or less, and how destructive it was. Although we never really saw what happened to Derek Bishop so I wonder how he died? Did he just die from rubble that fell on him from the Chitauri's attack? I mean, weirdly no body but maybe it was for the benefit of Kate's mental health...

It seemed like the Bishops were having financial problems before the Chitauri attacked and Eleanor married into money that came from Derek. Did they become stable from whatever insurance policy they had (Derek's life insurance?) or because Eleanor took over the business? Was it even a security firm when Derek was running it :confused:?

Usually Olympic level athletes just happen to become Superheroes and use that talent to be capable vigilante's, but the entire reason Kate became such an overachiever in martial arts, archery, fencing, and gymnastics was so she could become a Superhero and protect her family. Makes me wonder if we'll get to see Clint's training at some point :cool:.

"Stane Tower? That name basically doomed it :rolleyes2:.

"Greer?" That couldn't be Tigra, could it o_O?

Rogers the Musical...just, Rogers the Musical, I mean, it makes sense in-universe that The Avengers would be famous enough for their exploits to warrant a musical (Tony even has a biopic), let alone Steve, but no wonder Clint felt so zoned out watching it having actually lived it. I love how they can't help but comment on Thor's attractiveness. And they apparently threw Ant-Man in there for some reason :p.

Clint still reeling from Natasha's death, especially from little reminders of her or just seeing an actress performing her on stage or a little girl with her hair. Poor guy :sad:.

"Thanos was Right" Yeah, okay buddy :rolleyes:.

This is probably the most characterization we've gotten with the Barton kids. Cooper is the oldest and dumb, Lila is the level-headed middle child (and probably Clint's favorite), and Nate is the precocious and everywhere youngest child who they constantly need to keep track of ;).

Swordsman! And he's engaged to Kate's mom! Are they making it too obvious that he's the bad guy or mastermind here? Are they going to do nothing to connect him and Clint even though they have a deep history in the comics? Is he just a guy who loves swords and knows how to use them? Will he get to have a really cool sword sequence later on and quite possibly wear some kind of costume? I guess we'll find out :evil:.

The Tracksuit Dracula's are the Tracksuit Dracula's, Bro. Hilariously I think I spotted a token girl in their number (the one with the bob cut) :p.

So the Ronin (they finally say that name out loud) gear was found under Avengers Compound...no one investigated how it got there? Unless it got on the black market before it was official record. Probably would be a bit of a scandal for The Avengers if that ever became public knowledge :oops:.

Poor Kate wants a mentorship so badly and Clint just wants to be done with it and get back to his family for Christmas. But in-between those five days it looks like fate will thrust them together and bond as partners :D.

Ant-Man is now famous enough that he has cosplayers on the streets. I guess the Giant-Man scene in CW or Endgame bumped him up a bit. Maybe that's why he got thrown into the musical and the Battle of New York :anime:?

Grills just went into a burning building to grab the flameproof costume or snuck in there like Clint did? I was expecting a reveal that it was just expertly well made cosplay the whole time :rolleyes2:.

Detective Caudle really comes differently being played by a young black man versus an old white dude. Also, I guess he moved to New York instead of LA o_O.

So it seems like Velma...I mean, Clint's wife knew about Ronin and what Clint did while he was in the suit. I guess that would be something you'd want to be honest about with your spouse :ack:.

Kate needs to work on her Superhero landing. Also, I guess her Superhero costume in this series is just something she scrounged together from her actual clothes :confused:.

Echo is running the Tracksuit Mafia? Or working with them? Kind of wondering what her deal is here, other than wanting whoever Ronin is :mad:.
 

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I very much enjoyed the 2 part premiere and getting back to a grounded story. Not to say I hated the last string of series but it's always nice to get away from the sci-fi material every so often.

Nice touch to see Shang-Chi already added to the Marvel Studios sequence.

Yes, it's interesting with the generational aspect of how the Battle of New York caused a lot of reverberations still being felt to this day and we see what effect it had in the younger generation through Kate's POV, being her driving force for over a decade.

Also, the cynic in me wondered if Eleanor took advantage of the chaos to kill her own husband and make it look like he was killed by errant Chitauri blasts and buried in rubble, explaining why it took so long for her to get to Kate.

Okay, so one hand, there's the Tracksuit Mafia and Echo focused on the watch from the Avengers Compound and Ronin and on the other hand, there's what was going on between Armand Duquesne and Eleanor and seemingly the coup Jack did, likely murdered Armand with the Ronin sword he helped to himself at the black market auction. Is it all connected in one New York underworld scheme? Like Mephisto in WandaVision, I bet everyone's going to be chomping at the bit if Kingpin is going to show up or not.

I bet the watch is the one or similar to the one Tony wore in Civil War that could transform into an Iron Man gauntlet. That kind of tech would be a game changer for a local mafia. I suppose like with Toomes' operation, a couple things slipped past the Department of Damage Control when clean up at the Avengers Compound commenced. I suppose that could be seeding future storylines like Armor Wars.

Clint thinking back as to what caused his need for a hearing aid. :D The Rogers Musical and it's take on the Battle of New York... the guy in the bathroom. Man. But then the owner at the Chinese restaurant telling him dinner was on the house for saving the city. :)

Lucky was awesome. Not much else to say.

But again, like with Sam, it seems in the post-Endgame era, the Avengers, active and retired, don't have seem to have much scratch. I lol'ed when Kate started inquiring about the Avengers Tower and safehouses. It was intriguing that the sale of the tower wasn't known to Kate.

Not a good look for NYFD that firefighter Grills helped himself to the Ronin suit while on the job... still the LARP stuff was unexpected and amusing.

Points to Kate's aunt being Moira Brandon. In the comics, the West Coast Avengers used her mansion as their headquarters. I'm guessing all the names on the buzzer to the building were Marvel writers or Marvel Studios crew.

Great intro shot of Echo!
EDIT: Ah, that music was from Depeche Mode's Christmas Island.
 
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I very much enjoyed the 2 part premiere and getting back to a grounded story. Not to say I hated the last string of series but it's always nice to get away from the sci-fi material every so often.
I wish MCU Spider-Man could be this grounded...
Nice touch to see Shang-Chi already added to the Marvel Studios sequence.
I only just noticed now that it's his show how Hawkeye, despite being an OG!Avenger, is the only one seemingly not in the sprawling display of art versions of the heroes :eek:.
Yes, it's interesting with the generational aspect of how the Battle of New York caused a lot of reverberations still being felt to this day and we see what effect it had in the younger generation through Kate's POV, being her driving force for over a decade.
I wonder if anyone else will end up having a BoNY based origin...
Also, the cynic in me wondered if Eleanor took advantage of the chaos to kill her own husband and make it look like he was killed by errant Chitauri blasts and buried in rubble, explaining why it took so long for her to get to Kate.
There's a lot of suspicion about what happened to Derek Bishop and how no one responded to Kate yelling after them. Like either Derek faked his death and his wife is in on it to reap the insurance or Eleanor killed him for said insurance and blamed it on the Chitauri attack. We never saw a body :confused:.
Okay, so one hand, there's the Tracksuit Mafia and Echo focused on the watch from the Avengers Compound and Ronin and on the other hand, there's what was going on between Armand Duquesne and Eleanor and seemingly the coup Jack did, likely murdered Armand with the Ronin sword he helped to himself at the black market auction. Is it all connected in one New York underworld scheme? Like Mephisto in WandaVision, I bet everyone's going to be chomping at the bit if Kingpin is going to show up or not.
Will Swordsman turn out to just be a guy who really like swords :p?
I bet the watch is the one or similar to the one Tony wore in Civil War that could transform into an Iron Man gauntlet. That kind of tech would be a game changer for a local mafia. I suppose like with Toomes' operation, a couple things slipped past the Department of Damage Control when clean up at the Avengers Compound commenced. I suppose that could be seeding future storylines like Armor Wars.
Damage Control need to be better on the ball with the amount of tech criminals keep nabbing :sweat:.
Clint thinking back as to what caused his need for a hearing aid. :D The Rogers Musical and it's take on the Battle of New York... the guy in the bathroom. Man. But then the owner at the Chinese restaurant telling him dinner was on the house for saving the city. :)
Maybe Natasha bowed out at the right time before she lost her hearing...and I guess it is kind of a mixed bag when it comes to the casual celebrity being an Avenger brings, with the good and the bad o_O.
But again, like with Sam, it seems in the post-Endgame era, the Avengers, active and retired, don't have seem to have much scratch. I lol'ed when Kate started inquiring about the Avengers Tower and safehouses. It was intriguing that the sale of the tower wasn't known to Kate.
People still won't mention who bought Avengers Tower :rolleyes2:.

I wonder if there are some people who think the Avengers still live in Avengers Tower despite how little they actually stayed there in the grand scheme of things :oops:.
Not a good look for NYFD that firefighter Grills helped himself to the Ronin suit while on the job... still the LARP stuff was unexpected and amusing.
People just nabbing stuff willy nilly in this show :ack:.
Points to Kate's aunt being Moira Brandon. In the comics, the West Coast Avengers used her mansion as their headquarters. I'm guessing all the names on the buzzer to the building were Marvel writers or Marvel Studios crew.
WCA reference for the win :cool:.
Great intro shot of Echo!
I wonder if that's supposed to be her character theme...
 

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I wonder if anyone else will end up having a BoNY based origin...
I bet some of it factors into Ms. Marvel (but mostly Captain Marvel is her inspiration of course).
People still won't mention who bought Avengers Tower :rolleyes2:.

I wonder if there are some people who think the Avengers still live in Avengers Tower despite how little they actually stayed there in the grand scheme of things :oops:.
It's funny seeing people starting to think Wilson Fisk bought it. FFH established its a condo now in the epilogue I think.

EDIT: Tanner Bean tried to get Luis' steering wheel into the auction.

Bts featurette on the LARP.
 
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Neo Ultra Mike

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"Echoes" - I will say of all the MCU series so far, this easily has the best third episode. WandaVision's was... fine but outside the 70's aesthetic and some decent bits only memorable for the ending reveal of Maria being knocked out of the hex. Falcon and The Winter Soldier had good stuff with Zemo but was also the "we have to go around and build on the world and the plot" sort of slog part of that narrative; Loki was just about him and Sylvie before you even knew exactly what you're deal was and What If though having a good mystery element had some obnoxious cringe comedy that knocked it back some. This though was aces all throughout the episode. A bit here and there may not of been that great (Clint blocking out Kate as she was in the middle of the ramble by not turning on his hearing aid) but... that's really all I can think of that I didn't like about this one. I guess the ending of Jack having the sword to Clint isn't necessarily the best end tag in the world but it's still a good one, especially since if we are following the comics in that regard the two do have a relationship so curious if that's the case here.

So what works about this episode? Again pretty much everything else. I do appreciate that this one opened with that backstory on Maya. I guess it could seem a bit slow for a character you don't know that well but framing the opening epseically from her perspective of not hearing anything (I do like how that is a motive throughout the episode though will get to the best use later) but being able to listen well to the test and then singing with her father when he told her they couldn't afford a deaf school and she'd have to go between two worlds. The stuff with the dragon book honestly worked when it could of been cheesy because hey we already established in Shang Chi there are dragons in other worlds so it is a thing even in the MCU and does work connecting to Maya. And I am glad we get in this episode not four what exactly she's after; Ronin killed her father (in a well shot scene honestly especially how he jumped out of the window) and she wants revenge for his death. I kind of figured that would be the case but I am glad we have that upfront with her character as there are obviously other mysteries. Like who is her uncle that runs the Tracksuit Mafia that is this big criminal Clint may have history with? I mean we all kind of have a theory on who we HOPE it is (*cough cough* KINGPIN *cough cough* SERIOUSLY VINCENT D'ONOFRIO KINGPIN DO IT *cough cough cough*) but it does make for interesting drama especially when this person doesn't want to be making noticable trouble while Echo is obviously more on the warpath. I didn't have all the problems a lot of other people did with Flagsmasher in Falcon and The Winter Soldier but considering Echo's already going to have her own series I have a feeling her arc is going to be a lot better and make sense plus I do like the relationship she has with Kazi and I appreciate they took the time to show off how good a fighter she is and she had a really cool shot stomping Hawkeye's hearing aid after previously telling him he relies too much on it.

Speaking of that the action in this episode is also really good. I guess if you saw the Disney Plus day special a fair amount of that was ruined already but they have a lot more in the episode that really stood out from Clint having to throw toys around in order to knock away some of the goons or him and Echo fighting uside the bow staffs and Kate doing that cool sweeping motion once Hawkeye cut her from the tape. And honestly the chase from the promos and even teaser was cool but yeah you don't see the best parts unless you're watching the episode from having to go through that Christmas Tree lot using the spider web arrow to attach to all of the cars to that gunk arrow and of course the awesomeness of shooting one random arrow high up in the air and then Clint shooting a PYM arrow that makes that one grow giant size to crush down on a car. That is so wicked cool. Honestly I would of asked Scott to have Hank make like bunches of those kind of arrows. Makes me wonder if there are even other better trick arrows being saved for like the finale since how would you top that but that was so well used and yeah I'm sure there were a lot of great arrow fights in Arrow with Oliver Queen but doubt they did anything as cool here as in 8 seasons of that show. now I know even more why the team was sad that Scott couldn't be in this; between their combined attack in Civil War and this these two would make such a good combo especially being the more everyman of these super hero teams you do just want to see them partner up and... okay I'm just ranting on how cool that moment was. Swing arrow also cool but seriously PYM arrow is the crowning action moment of this episode and easily one of the best action bits already of phase 4.

I think this episode also worked in it's comedy and drama as well. I do like Kate actually being happy when she realizes Clint and her are on the same page about turning the car around or having to walk the dog when they get home when he doesn't have his hearing aid in. And though I thought Maya's backstory would be the saddest part of the ep they really did a great pull at your heartstrings moment with Natahniel calling Clint. At first I thought it was going to be revealed somehow Laura and the kids were in trouble or it would just be Nathaniel being cute and just a really precious idea of Kate having to write down what he was saying as Clint couldn't really hear him. But then the reveal that Natahaniel said "if you can't come home for Christmas that's okay" and Clint trying to reconfirm he was coming back for his family just really hit. Because it just makes it so much more relatable; Clint wouldn't be a monster or awful as his family would understand that things came up but not only does he want to be there but he knows this problem of Ronin is his fault he has to clean up as much for their ssake as his own and makes that commitment just feel more impactful. I also appreciate Kate pointing out that Clint is a role model knowing he came to help her out just because he saw someone in trouble and feels that is worth commending is really earnest. Again they are doing a good job making her flawed (her overconfidence in thinking she could just talk and get to know members of the tracksuit mafia until maya so easily threatened and freaked her out) but still come through not just with skills but earnesty. And yeah once we got a focus on the two's banter some good comedy as well from Kate showing a crude drawing of a better costume for Hawkeye (obviously a mock at his original costume which yeah other shows have done before but doing it through a crude image and Clint dismissing it like he did makes it feel differeent) to her names for the Dog (Doginator I think was my favorite. Honestly cuter then Lucky the Pizza Dog IMHO) and pointing out that Jack is sketchy because "when I was trying to stab him in the face he parried" and not being able to pay for the meal or being locked out of security at home after explaining the hstory of the building. I think now that we have the two together more willing to work off one another instead of having to set up Kate or why Clint would be with her we can just get to the two as a team and delve more into what's happening which really has picked up for me quite a lot with this one.

So yeah great ep with like no real issues. Good introduction for Maya, good action, good comedy and even some good moments of drama. I didn't even mind the shorter run time because it felt like we got enough content for a week's worth and certainly looking forward to how this continues in the next half and hope they can keep her the strong mark this one made going on the rest of the season. Again easily the best episode 3 of any MCU series so far.
 

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There's a lot of stuff about comic Echo that I kind of forget about because they're not emphasized so much (her being deaf, her Native American heritage, her prosthetic leg) but these were all at the forefront of her origin story here as we see Maya as young deaf girl stuck in public school with normal kids because they can't afford something specialized while her father teaches her to excel despite her disability :).

"Are dragons real?" I take it you haven't seen Shang-Chi :rolleyes2:.

Echo's "Uncle." I mean, that suit looks like a suit a particular character wore in season 1 of a particular show and that laugh sounded like a particular actor who portrayed said character...and Clint says you don't want to mess with them. I don't want to get my hopes up, but still ;).

See, this is why we don't play judge, jury, and executioner when fighting crime. You end up making the kids of the people you kill swear vengeance and take over :ack:.

Oof. Her comic handprint from her fathers' bloody hand :eek:.

What's Kate got against Imagine Dragons :rolleyes:?

So Echo can still only speak through sign language and needs an interpreter. Can she talk? Like the only sounds she makes are her grunts when she's fighting Clint. Not that she doesn't make an impression without spoken words :cool:.

"Black Widow killed Ronin" It's true...from a certain point of view :knd1:.

It's nice to see Clint and Kate fighting in tandem and becoming more of a real duo together, and bonding with each other in-spite of themselves. Even if Clint probably feels like the one benefit to losing his hearing aid was not hearing Kate talk all the time :anime:.

The Clown is Echo's right-hand-man and her interpreter? And maybe they exchanged his flirtation with Kate in the comics with something brewing between him and Echo? Although he's pretty unrecognizable from his comic self :shrug:.

I love how geeky Kate got over getting to use Trick Arrows, and while they haven't gotten as crazy as, say, Arrow Trick Arrows, these got pretty creative. Like goo arrow with purple goo! Perfect :D.

Did Kate just blow up, like, 4 people with that arrow? Shouldn't she be reacting to the fact that she just killed people for the first time and in a very public way :confused:?

I knew the moment she didn't realize the use of plunger arrow that they would end up using it :murphy:.

Pym Particle Arrow! Now there's the kind of Marvel spectacle I've grown to expect :robin:.

Oof. That scene with Clint not being able to hear his son and Kate having to interpret was tough, especially when his kid seemed resigned to Clint not making it home for Christmas. I think this moment really helped bond Clint and Kate though :proud:.

This show really is kind of mining the contrast between the traditional Hawkeye and the Ultimate Hawkeye and this weird melding of the two that is MCU Hawkeye, where he was the latter for so long and rejects elements of the former even though Kate as a characters seems more in the vein of the traditional Hawkeye from the comics and embraces those traits. Although if Velma would divorce Clint over the classic suit, she has no taste :mad:.

I take it that the dramatic break in Clint and Kate's relationship will be finding out that he was Ronin and this is partially his fault. Although it's kind of hard for a guy raising three kids and trying to be best dad to claim he's not a role model...

Did Kate forget she promised to meet that police detective or does she still have time to make that? Assuming the detective doesn't figure out she was the one driving around town causing a ruckus :oops:.

Clint met Swordsman in the only way these two could meet :).
 
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Excellent episode. Grateful they spent the first 7 and a half minutes on Maya's back story and making us empathetic to her and really fleshing her out character-wise instead of dropping a one dimensional villain on us. C'mon, that tease! "Uncle." And Clint's allusion to him. Ha! Gotta be Kingpin. C'mon!

And yeah, Shang Chi hat tip for the win.

Also loved Clint and Kate slowly working in sync. Trick arrow stuff was awesome. Loved the reveal with the Pym Tech arrow.

Didn't think Clown would be the #2. Interesting little quasi-love triangle there. Also dug that Kate was willing to give advice to the Tracksuit about his girlfriend, lol. And her design for a new Hawkeye costume, it's wings. :D :D

It'll be interesting when Maya and Kate find out who Robin really is... and also answering why he doesn't consider himself a role model. Like that they brought up he was an agent/ghost/spook who was trained not to be noticed. So seems like he started at S.H.I.E.L.D. around 2004.

Sloan Limited? Guess that's just a dummy corporation. I like that they like us wonder if Jack is connected to the Tracksuit Mafia stuff. But could be a red herring.

Huh, wait, what happened to the Stark watch.... is it still in Kate's apartment?

There's my sword. lol. I suspect this will lead to that bit in the trailer with Kate and Clint talking to Eleanor at her desk.
 

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Excellent episode. Grateful they spent the first 7 and a half minutes on Maya's back story and making us empathetic to her and really fleshing her out character-wise instead of dropping a one dimensional villain on us. C'mon, that tease! "Uncle." And Clint's allusion to him. Ha! Gotta be Kingpin. C'mon!
I mean, they work out of a place called "Fat-Man." They're not really trying to hide it :p.
 

Neo Ultra Mike

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There's a lot of stuff about comic Echo that I kind of forget about because they're not emphasized so much (her being deaf, her Native American heritage, her prosthetic leg

That's prosthetic leg isn't from the comics at all. That's from the fact Alaqua Cox has a prosthetic leg and they felt that was something they wanted to work in and not just write/CGI around it.

What's Kate got against Imagine Dragons :rolleyes:?

I mean they did do a song for Suicide Squad 2016 so that could be it. or like some fans felt they sold out after "Radioactive" to become more mainsteram generic rock as yeah there's actually a fair amount of hate for Imagine Dragons in some music fans since their song "Demons" came out.

So Echo can still only speak through sign language and needs an interpreter. Can she talk? Like the only sounds she makes are her grunts when she's fighting Clint. Not that she doesn't make an impression without spoken words :cool:.

I mean she's clearly been deaf since she was a kid so I assume that she may not of ever felt the need to pick up being able to speak. I mean Makkari in Eternals didn't speak either so maybe that's just a thing of the deaf characters in the MCU.

I take it that the dramatic break in Clint and Kate's relationship will be finding out that he was Ronin and this is partially his fault. Although it's kind of hard for a guy raising three kids and trying to be best dad to claim he's not a role model...

Well I think the whole "i'm not a role model" refers to not seeing himself as a hero. Like Natasha he probably sees himself as someone who just generally does his job even if that job is helping save the world and doesn't elate himself to being on that level of super famous like Iron Man/Captain America/Thor or heck even now Bruce/Hulk felt after Infinity War. And yeah also that time spent killing as Ronin in Endgame which yeah waiting to see when everyone realizes that's him.
 

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I mean they did do a song for Suicide Squad 2016 so that could be it.
To be fair they also did a song for Iron Man 3

I liked the discussion of costumes my favorite Hawkeye one was the one he wore after giving up on being Giant Man and returning from the Kree Skrull War. Even though kate wore it better
8c10ad4b4d5a35e74883bc73a05e9175.jpg
RCO016_1467877986.jpg
 

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That's prosthetic leg isn't from the comics at all. That's from the fact Alaqua Cox has a prosthetic leg and they felt that was something they wanted to work in and not just write/CGI around it.
Ah, I see...will synergy follow suit o_O?
I mean they did do a song for Suicide Squad 2016 so that could be it. or like some fans felt they sold out after "Radioactive" to become more mainsteram generic rock as yeah there's actually a fair amount of hate for Imagine Dragons in some music fans since their song "Demons" came out.
I liked Radioactive well enough so guess I'll chalk that up to a matter of taste :p.
I mean she's clearly been deaf since she was a kid so I assume that she may not of ever felt the need to pick up being able to speak. I mean Makkari in Eternals didn't speak either so maybe that's just a thing of the deaf characters in the MCU.
I guess it was just jarring for me because I know she can speak in the comics, but I guess they can just subtitle her signing in the future.

(This oddly reminds me of Earth-16 Cass now).
Well I think the whole "i'm not a role model" refers to not seeing himself as a hero. Like Natasha he probably sees himself as someone who just generally does his job even if that job is helping save the world and doesn't elate himself to being on that level of super famous like Iron Man/Captain America/Thor or heck even now Bruce/Hulk felt after Infinity War. And yeah also that time spent killing as Ronin in Endgame which yeah waiting to see when everyone realizes that's him.
Just goes to show the sharp contrast with comic Hawkeye.
 

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Episode 4 "Partners, Am I Right?"
Secrets are revealed and hard truths emerge, culminating in a battle against two opposing forces.
 
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Neo Ultra Mike

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"Partners, Am I Right?" - You know I'm just going to say it; this is an episode that for the most part was really working until we got up to the fight. Which quite honestly outside of the moment of comedy of Kate having to try and push her way on the grappling line to get to the other building and I guess some of the shots of Clint being thrown around, wasn't really good. Which is a shame because yeah this is Yelena's big introduction into this series as we all knew she would pop up at some point and figured it would be in a fight but... this was not done very well. This was one of those where there was way too much quick cutting and done at night which does NOT work for this series. Maybe against grunts but this was a four way battle between Clint, Kate, Yelena and Maya where you have these super trained marksman vs these really skilled close quarters fighters and you just couldn't really make any of it out that well. Heck despite Yelena having the mask half the time I was confusing her for Maya and I was not having that problem keeping the fight centered in the Black Widow movie at any point which did handle this kind of close quarters action a lot better. And again if these Disney+ series want to be such direct ties to the movies that means being compared action wise as well and this just wasn't doing it for me. Maybe if this was a Netflix series they probably would know how to frame the darkness better but that didn't work here. And quite honestly even outside the action there were a fair amount of problems with this scene. It seems like Clint doesn't know who Yelena is which... I'm not sure how much I buy since you'd think Natasha would of brought it up to Clint considering how good friends the two are heck not even during their trip Voormir in Endgame that Natasha reconnected with her sister after that whole Civil War fight but okay fine I'll buy he doesn't know who she is. What I don't buy is Yelena even after her mask was taken off just leaving without talking to Clint at all. I know she wants to kill him but if people like Eleanor Bishop know that Clint and Natasha were close friends, Yelena should too. Shouldn't she be asking Clint "why did you kill my sister?" Or something like that? Isn't the point of her being a free agent and having her own will not to be a slave to the red room like having agency and asking questions about what happened? Like it makes no sense she would just not say anything and leave and just feels done so we can have Kate and Clint "break up" which yeah still doesn't make sense. If Maya was taking notes on Clint's family she's trying to get intel on the people Clint is associated with to get her closer to Ronin so wouldn't that also include Kate the person he's partnered with in the warehouse and NOW in fighting you? I get wanting to protect Kate and I am glad he pointed out "there's a black widow assassin after me this is more serious" but even from a "I have to protect her" note this feels so off. Felt like forced drama in a way of having a cliffhanger or sour note for this episode which doesn't work anyway considering the whole point of this show is seeing the two team up so having down time from that will only hurt the show more then help it.

Honestly outside of that sour ending I actually thought the rest of the episode was pretty good. In terms of drama I do actually like the idea that Kate sees how well Jack treats her mom and seeing her happy actually makes her like the guy but not to a "oh I'm suddenly blindsided to the idea of him being bad" but in a way less hostile which I do really appreciate. I also dig the reveal of Clint admitting he lost his family during the blip and Kate finding out he was Ronin. I think some people felt that would be the break in their relationship but I'm glad it wasn't and I like how Kate realized why he would feel that way and still felt he was a hero but Clint pointing out he was a weapon who usually was just aimed at the right people especially since pointing out not taking out Nat when they first met was the best shot he "ever took" which again sells the weariness of the character so well. Not nearly as good drama like the conversation in the last episode with his kid but it works and him taking off his hearing aid as the events of Endgame played out were good. I also appreciate seeing Clint actually show how cool he is at dealing with Kazi with him having taken away all of his weapons in the car before chatting with him to try and get Echo to stop chasing Ronin. There's speculation that Kazi is the one who was Ronin and wound up killing Echo's father but I don't know I could see it being Clint since the entire point of Ronin was showing how bitter Clint had gotten and how far he had fallen because of his loss so having a more direct example of that he wants to ensure doesn't die works and I also like the idea of teasing how only Maya really cares about this whole vengeance. Pretty clear that Kingpin will be the head of this organization especially since yeah it's hinted at again the big head doesn't want to cause any public ruckus which fits Kingpin's MO really well and I don't mind that not being revealed here since I guess that will come next week. Would of liked to have Yelena's reveal handled better but eh already complained enough about that.

And you know the comedy and banter in this one was really good. Guess there's no connection between Clint and Jack here but do like Jack trying to be nice to Clint realizing who he is and how Clint managed to sneak away that sword. And I admit Jack's whole banter admitting he mixes up sayings is cute and actually kind of does make me hope he's sort of a patsy in all of this or at the very least actually does at least care about Eleanor. I felt though the episode really picked up once we had Kate go over to Clint's to try and cheer him up with movies and bad sweaters and there was a lot of good jokes there from Clint admitting he doesn't come up with plans and pointing out Kate was drawing on a board without a dry erase marker, Clint poitning out why he doesn't use boomerang arrows and Kate pointing out "you'd just have to dodge them when they came back" and then teaching her the coin trick to turn off then on the TV. It is good to see these two bond more and I guess the point of the last scene was to make us feel bad that bond was ruined which wasn't handled well... okay enough complaining about that here as again the montage of them joining together was great. I also liked seeing the LARP group again this time approached by Kate who is much more into the idea and able to make friends with them and even ask them "hey if we give you enough thread can you make us some costumes" so yeah pretty clear they're the ones making the outfits we'll likely see in the last episode so nice to see that set up here. Also like the detail of "bombshell" talking about her girlfriend... I think the MCU still needs more direct examples of LBGTQ+ characters (I mean Eternals did show it but even that was one of the sub main characters) but still appreciate showing that and I do really like how Kate got into the building being nice to the old guy but then knowing she'd annoy/weird him out talking about how she's on a mission with the Avengers and him obviously not believing her and making him just run out. Like that stuff is good and I appreciate that though Clint does have a point on wanting to find good exit straegies and handle things if they go south knowing they likely will Kate can also be on to something doing the more direct approach... though hey wait since the entire mission was to get that Rolex (which we still don't entirely know what the deal is there) Clint didn't take it from her even when saying "get out of here we're not partners" even though that's what he wanted which yeah just makes that ending scene weaker...

Okay point is this was an episode I was really digging until the finale who had weak action and the break up felt forced. otherwise really strong character stuff from our leads bonding comedically and dramatically building up more what's happened and I'm sure the action will certainly be better at the very least in the last episode but eh this was not a good use of it honestly.
 

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