"Stargirl" Season Two Talkback (Spoilers)

[reflection01]

I’m enjoying this season. I just haven’t been back to this forum in a few weeks.

When I saw this season was going to be “dark,” I was worried it would be grim dark or lose the tone that worked last season.

This is working really well. They’ve managed to do an excellent superhero show with light horror elements without a whole lot of special effects and spectacle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Yojimbo]

October 5
"Summer School: Chapter Nine" - Episode 22
As Eclipso takes aim at the Whitmore/Dugan's, Pat is reminded of painful memories from his past involving the original JSA and their fight to take down Eclipso. Meanwhile, Mike is forced to confront the guilt he feels for his role in Icicle's death, and Barbara comes face to face with someone from her past. Finally, Courtney struggles to hold onto hope after Eclipso targets those around her.

 

[Road to Gotham]

I am enjoying Eclipso trolling the JSA but I was hoping to see some action in the flashbacks with the OG JSA.
Felt like more could have been done.
Poor Pat. All but Jay treats him like a floor mat.

 

[Yojimbo]

October 12
"Summer School: Chapter Ten" - Episode 23
Courtney is left devastated after discovering a dark secret that Pat has kept hidden from her. However, when they learn that Jennie may be able to help in their plan to stop Eclipso, they’re forced to put their issues aside as they set out on a road trip to find her. Meanwhile, Beth makes a shocking discovery about The Shade.

 

[Road to Gotham]

Was pleased that Starman apologize to Pat.
Sly name dropping "Hop Harrigan" was a nice nod to a long forgotten DC Character.

 

[Yojimbo]

October 19
"Summer School: Chapter Eleven" - Episode 24
After a frightening encounter leaves Courtney’s life hanging in the balance, the team band together to determine their next steps.

 

[Yojimbo]

October 26
"Summer School: Chapter Twelve" - Episode 25
With the looming threat of Eclipso hanging over them, Courtney seeks help from the unlikeliest of places. Meanwhile, Mike’s search to find Thunderbolt leads him straight to his friend Jakeem, and Pat goes to extreme lengths to protect Rick.

 

[Road to Gotham]

Nice seeing Beth and Chuck working together.
Good seeing Yolanda back in the fold.
I chuckle watching Mike and Jakeem doing dishes. Guess that is more important then stopping Eclipso.
Wonder what Pat did to change Rick's Uncle mind about pressing charges?

Glad all the set up is over.
Hopefully the season finale will be all out action with lots of special effects. PLEASE!

 

[Yojimbo]

November 2
"Summer School: Chapter Thirteen" - Episode 26 (Season Finale)
As Eclipso unleashes the final part of his master plan, Courtney, Pat and the JSA band together to take him down once and for all.

 

[reflection01]

The finale was a little weak like Season 1 but it did the job of wrapping up the season and setting things up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Road to Gotham]

Overall the finale and season was a solid 'B' for me.
Lots to like.
Cat Fight. Seeing Ted and Yolanda battling was fun.
Two Dr. Mid-Nite's in costumes. Beth parents are excited for their daughter.
Even hinted at creating her own uniform that is Black and yellow.
Glad to hear that McNider gets a happy ending. Hopefully things will work out with his wife and son.
Starman finally arrives.
Glad Rick was unable to fix in the hourglass. Poor Grundy.
Mike dapping and shaking booty Stripe at Eclipso.
Thunderbolt turning Eclipso to TOAST! Very witty.

I thought adding the Crocks to the fight was wasteful. They really didn't have much to offer.
To me it lessen seeing them in the Neighbor scene later on. I did chuckle when they showed up at the Dugan's door.
Mr. Bones! Looks good.

 

[Yojimbo]

Now on HBO Max.

 

[Otaku-sempai]

Now on HBO Max.

Does that include footage that hasn't aired on The CW?

 

[Fone Bone]

Stargirl "Summer School: Chapter One"

The Berlanti sophomore season slump predictably begins.

I warn you. This review is not going to be pleasant. I am going to be very harsh on this show in general and Geoff Johns in particular. You might wind up hating me for it. But it needs to be said.

Before I say all my harsh opinions, I need to get right out front with the opinion that the episode isn't actually terrible. Technically, if Supergirl or The Flash delivered that exact episode I'd consider it a win and a drastic improvement. But this is where the Berlanti stuff gets into trouble. Yeah, it's much better than Season Seven of The Flash and Season Six of Supergirl. But so were those show's first seasons. Stargirl in fact had a better first season than either of those two shows, so the dip in quality is not only more noticeable, it's more infuriating. Basically in another three or four seasons this show is going to wind up as bad as Gotham. After seeing tonight's episode I sincerely wish Superman & Lois had been canceled after its first season. It's going to suck in the fall and it's gonna break my heart. This is all so unnecessary.

Courtney's a kid. Mike's a kid. The idea of a a vacation at a lakehouse with a jet-ski, motorboat and outdoor BBQ should make them excited. They shouldn't be voting against it. And here is where my unkind opinion of Geoff Johns comes in. Courtney is a VERY personal character to him for very obvious reasons, and if you want to argue he knows the character better than me, I might even stipulate that. But that's still bad writing and not credible to a real kid even if he believes it is.

Unfortunately, the harsh truth is Johns is a terrible writer in general, specifically as a TV writer of serialized stuff. He's one of the masterminds of Titans, the worst superhero show of all time.

The episode lost me in the opening scene and didn't get me back. It was horrible. Who wants to see that? This was a nice show last year! What is wrong with this show?

Are we supposed to believe that Beth's parents are so stupid they'll leave their divorce papers within eyesight without having told her first? That my friends is what is known as bad writing, as was Courtney attacking Artemis at school in a VERY Secret ID-compromising fashion, and neither getting recognized or in trouble. Unnecessary superhero fights are something most fans love. I loathe them. And the fight at the end with Green Lantern's daughter was especially stupid and pointless, even as far as that lousy trope goes.

And how long has Pat been doing this? He hires Zeke who he knows nothing about, basically tells him to stay out of the basement, and doesn't even lock it up. Zeke having those questions to begin with is a Red Flag, one a superhero would ALWAYS be aware of. If the show were better written Pat would never have hired him. If they wanted to bring in a new character, and have him mixed up in the secret, they did it in the stupidest possible way.

Again, I would tolerate this from The Flash or Supergirl. Which is the problem. We've tolerated far too much from this franchise. Not me. Not anymore. I'm saying this drop in quality is not remotely acceptable. To me, and it maybe it shouldn't be to you either. I'm done tolerating dips in quality for the Berlanti shows from season to season.

I am not happy at all. **1/2.

Stargirl "Summer School: Chapter Two"

Much better than last week.

I like Jenny. She's square. Square characters get a bad rap but I think they're cool.

The fact that Courtney doesn't like her instantly is one of the reasons I don't actually like Courtney. She always makes things a bigger drama than they need to be. It's getting tiring.

Shade, huh? Love the hat.

The idea that Jenny is an actual Lantern is interesting. I wonder where they are going with it.

Back on track after an underwhelming premiere. ****.

Stargirl "Summer School: Chapter Three"

That was fun. Which is good. The show should be fun. I don't like that the last two weeks weren't.

I was very interested in the Shade. Simply by his reactions to the heroes. He said something that piqued my curiosity in such a fashion that I would be inclined to call it the best bit of writing the show ever did. And I'll call it that even if it doesn't pan out and the show lets us down later on. But I was interested that instead of directly answering Pat's question about why he's in Blue Valley, he tells him that it's better if he doesn't know. This suggests two things, both fascinating and irresistible. Again, if this doesn't pan out I won't slam the line (or the show) for it. Raising the question in the first place is the important thing. But the first thing it suggests is that whatever the Shade is doing, the heroes wouldn't like it, and they'd try to stop him. The second thing that specific line suggests is that Shade (probably correctly in my opinion) believes what he's doing is the for best of everybody, and that the heroes need to get out of the way to allow him to get his hands dirty in a way they refuse to to save them all. I believe this version of Shade is on the side of Angels. But he is going to have to do something abhorrent and horrible that Pat and Courtney would not approve of. And I hope (and pray) that this specific controversy, whatever it is, is not clear-cut, and some people in the audience will agree with Shade's point of view.

I imagine I will be one of them. Clearly whatever the team is doing is not working. When they were out on patrol at night with Pat they looked less like a superhero team and more like a bunch of trick-or-treaters. They're kids. Another thing that says to me that Shade is a "good guy" is at the end when he says "He is going to kill those kids." It's the way he said it. He's disturbed and regretful. Which is a fascinating reaction to play. I can't wait to see where they go with it.

He did everything but deny killing Captain Mid-Nite too. There is a story there that I want to hear. Preferably over tea.

I am not cool with them giving Mike Thunderbolt for a single episode and then taking it away from him. For once, I actually agreed with Courtney that he deserved a chance. And I found it was refreshing that she was supportive about that when Pat wasn't. And this is speaking as someone who generally HATES Mike. They gave me a potential reason NOT to hate him and took it away. I resent that a bit.

Yeah, I'm not ready to say the show is back on track, but if the season works properly there are some good moral controversies here to explore. That's not to say the show won't blow up in a different way (I am very concerned with the producers promising a dark tone for the season) but this was solid set-up for a decent season. It's up to the producers to deliver it but this was solid groundwork for it. ****1/2.

Stargirl "Summer School: Chapter Four"

That was pretty great. Crusher is so much fun. He just wants to be Pat's buddy.

I knew Shade was on the side of angels. Him refusing to admit he killed Dr. Mid-Nite was a part of that (although what he did to him instead wasn't great) but I believe he DOES want to stop Eclipso. The thing is, I don't think the Black Diamond is something he'd be able to control himself. Whatever his intentions are NOW, I think Eclipso would warp them in short order. Shade sneers at the idea of a supervillain team-up. In reality, a team-up with the heroes might be better for everyone.

Here's an unkind opinion. Courtney giving the apple to Artemis was outright rude. Her nosily prying into her private life immediately afterwards says she isn't looking to make friends. She's simply found herself a charity case. It is very hard for me to fathom the idea that Courtney is an outcast at her school. That is the mind-set of a well-meaning but clueless popular girl.

The one thing I didn't like was Pat and Barbara decided to keep the JSA's secrets at the end. It means the JSA did something sucky and unforgivable to Eclipso. He should be owning up to it. It's not like Courtney is never going to find out. That's how this crap works. He should be getting ahead of the narrative there, especially if Eclipso knows the truth, and is in town. It frankly struck me as plot-related stupidity for that reason.

That was neat otherwise though. ****.

Stargirl "Summer School: Chapter Five"

Just based on Cameron's reaction to her, Cynthia recruiting him for Team Eclipso was always going to be a longshot bet.

It's really neat that Courtney's staff has light powers that can potentially combat the darkness of Eclipso. It also ties into Courtney's sunny personality making it a good allegory.

This review is not a very long one, but I definitely liked the episode. ****.

Stargirl "Summer School: Chapter Six"

The ending of the little kid laughing and walking to the center of town was absolutely terrifying.

On some level, I'm relieved Mike is bait instead of Cindy's new recruit. By on another level I'm really annoyed. Because that's not what was set up in the previous episodes. It's a cop-out and the show is not playing fair with the viewer because of that fact. It was making us worry for nothing, which is uncool. I don't like that.

The fight between the heroes and villains was very well choreographed. It was quite excellent.

It was also neat to see Shade in the top hat and sunglasses.

Eclipso is a pretty nasty piece of work. Him making short work of the team of villains shows how powerful he is without handing the good guys the major loss. To be blunt, I think the villain kids super suck. Isaac and Artemis attacking Pat two-to-one out of his armor, at his lair no less, is completely dirty and out-of-bounds. I shed no tears for those kids and their various horrible fates.

Isaac is certainly dead. I don't think Artemis or Cindy are. At least not yet.

Surprisingly solid outing. Maybe I shouldn't be, but the show has sort of had me losing faith in it earlier in the season, and I'm glad to see things are back in shape. ****.

Stargirl "Summer School: Chapter Seven"

I did not like that. I didn't enjoy it. It's getting a negative grade.

All that being said, I found it explored a LOT of interesting themes. I do not always have to like something to find value in exploring what it means.

Let's see. This first thing is a brief(ish) note, but it needs to be said: Yolanda's mother totally sucks. I'm pretty sure I said this last season, but she still does. If you asked Yolanda if Courtney corrupted her, she'd say yes, so maybe her mother isn't far off the mark there technically. But what her mom believes is Yolanda's "corruption" actually involves her sexting scandal. And that happened well before Courtney came to Blue Valley. Mrs. Mendez is full of it. And she pisses me off for that reason.

Also, Beth, I understand having personal values, and wanting to be honest. But a friend needed support, and you couldn't give it. Even not understanding what had happened, you couldn't give a hurting friend the benefit of the doubt. Beth is one of those geeks who deep down knows she adorable (and acts like it). But she's a crappy friend because she is unable to drop that innocent facade when a friend needs her love and support. I'm angry at her and were I Yolanda I'd be far angrier at her than Courtney.

But I DO like that Yolanda resents Courtney for getting her into this. And she's probably right to. Yolanda is not a legacy like Rick is (or arguably Courtney is either). She had no skin in this game until Courtney decided she would be her special project "fixer-upper" of a friend.

She also complained about something interesting that I think the other heroes need to take more seriously. She complained that they are gonna have to kill Eclipso, and they are all expecting her to do it because she's done it before. I have to say I loved that being brought up. Because I believe every superhero team needs at least one member willing to use lethal force when necessary. For Team Arrow it was Oliver himself (although they often fudged this rule in battle scenes). For Teams Supergirl and Flash it's amazing not only is there NOT a team member tasked with this, but both Kara and Barry refuse to allow anyone on their team to do that themselves. It's a crazy demand, especially when you consider that a TON of members on both teams are in law enforcement where lethal force IS permitted. Barry Allen himself is technically a cop! It makes no sense for either him or Kara to set those limits for the rest of the team. And I like this show exploring and acknowledging the true idea that there are some villains that can't be reasoned with and need to be taken out for the public's safety. And that it looks like Yolanda is in the position that Wildcat will be expected to do it.

There is a difference in making your team a bunch of murderers like they are on Titans, and making your team willing to fight fire with fire when appropriate. I guess Geoff Johns doesn't see that distinction, but it exists, and it's weird this episode pointed it out while Titans, another Johns show, goes overboard in the other direction.

I also like that Mike pointed out that he killed Icicle. And he feels bad, and it was accident, but I very much approve it isn't actually eating him alive. And frankly that should be true of MANY heroes who have taken lives. The uniform opinion of "taking a life is horrible and you'll feel bad for the rest of your days" doesn't feel true-to-life for me, even for good people. I think that people everywhere have different opinions on every imaginable topic, so I can't ever believe this one is as uniform as television insists it should be.

So yeah, the episode pissed me off, and I think it sucked. But it gave me a lot to think about anyways. **1/2.

Stargirl "Summer School: Chapter Eight"

Didn't love it. Didn't much like it either.

There were individual elements that I responded to (like Mike calling Barbara "Mom" for the first time) but even if I liked something (like Rick's friendship with Grundy) the episode made sure to turn it sour.

Beth's plot was problematic. I liked her "Black power!" moment, but I feel like Eclipso's racism made little sense. If he's a racist (and he is), and he's trying to offend her (and he is), the phrases and terms he'd be using would be FAR more explicit and nastier than that. I understand that this is a TV-PG show (although the fight with "Grundy" suggests it shouldn't be) but there are ways for racists to say horrible things without getting kicked off television. Fox News does it every night. Eclipso's soft language seems to be a case of the writers perhaps finding the idea too distasteful to put Beth through the actual reality of it. Which means it probably shouldn't be tackling it to begin with. I liked her "I love being black!" But I don't feel like Eclipso is as big a racist monster as Tucker Carlson, which is a problem, not just for the episode, but for society too.

Also, I've complained about this next thing elsewhere, but I strongly dislike plotlines where people are either being mind-controlled or believe they are seeing things they aren't. I like characters fully in control of their own actions. I don't like writers handing heroes ready made excuses for the heroes doing a bad thing. In my opinion, the correct answer is to simply not write the hero doing the bad thing. A good, strong show would not ever need that specific thing as a crutch if it knew its message and its characters. And I feel like Eclipso being a season wide threat means the show can essentially have the heroes do crappy things (like Rick trying to kill Grundy) and then be able to walk it back because they were either mind-controlled or tricked. That's wrong. I fight that message with ever fiber of my being. I don't care if it's a well-worn comic trope or not, the truth is a LOT of comic book tropes are outright crappy and should be retired. I don't have to pretend it's remotely acceptable just because it's been done a million times before. Standards actually exist. If you copy a sucky thing, your take isn't gonna ever be less sucky. The thing itself being sucky is what determines if it works or not. Spoiler alert: It doesn't.

Not a good week. **.

Stargirl "Summer School: Chapter Nine"

That was dark and scary, and frankly there have been too many dark and scary episodes this season. I don't approve.

Jay Garrick showing up is good continuity for The Arrowverse, but he didn't have much important to do in this episode.

Eclipso being a little kid this time out means they are going to find a different way to defeat him.

Not liking this season. **1/2.

Stargirl "Summer School: Chapter Ten"

I fell in love with the episode in the first scene with Sylvester telling Pat about the watch. What a great story and moment.

I can't figure the Shade out. I loved his entrance, and his scene with Barbara was moving, but his move at the end of the episode made no sense. We'll see what happens next week.

No melodramatic music to end the episode on that awful scene, just made it more awful and real. Powerful.

I really liked this episode. ****1/2.

Stargirl "Summer School: Chapter Eleven"

Wow, another solid week.

I love how Barbara and Shade have made a connection. When Shade died, I loved his asking them to remember he died doing something good. Getting the backstory filled in for him and Charles was pretty great too. I was right about his ultimately being on the side of angels.

Cindy joining Team Stargirl is going to be fun simply because she IS a bad guy and has different solutions to problems. She'll want to kill Eclipso, child or not, while everyone else will resist it.

The show has been doing better in recent weeks. ****.

Stargirl "Summer School: Chapter Twelve"

That delightful "I'm Too Sexy" teaser with the staff and the dog? If you ask me, that's what the show should be all the time.

I like Mike basically giving up the Thunderbolt for Jakeem on the condition that he helps save the world with it. But he's gonna need Mike to do the dishes with him first.

I think I'm a little tired of Yolanda at this point. Her attitude has gone from understandable to unreasonable. I found the moment Cindy admitted she sent the text interesting. That was always the biggest chip on Yolanda's shoulder.

For the record, I think Cindy is wrong that you have to fight evil with evil. Eclipso is specifically weakened by light. And I wish when Cindy said that you have to fight fire with fire, Courtney would have been wise enough to say that you actually fight fire with water. And I think that's the correct metaphor for defeating Eclipso.

I'm with Pat in thinking Rick's uncle is a bad guy. But I still don't like the idea of Pat roughing him up in his hospital bed to get him to drop the charges against Rick.

Courtney's scene with her mom was very sweet, as was Beth geeking out over meeting Dr. Midniter. Frankly, I'm glad she likes him because he creeps me out a little.

Wondering who the others that Cindy calls back to town are.

I liked it more than most weeks this season. ****.

Stargirl "Summer School: Chapter Thirteen"

Well, the subtitle of the season turned out to be a dud. But "Frenemies" sounds like it will wind up being much more apt.

The toast thing was ridiculous which made it the right ending.

I loved Sylvester coming out of nowhere to save the day at the end. I'm frustrated that we never heard his explanation for why he isn't dead though. We had been waiting all season for it and we should have gotten it.

Beth liked it better when her parents were getting divorced.

Cindy wanting to join the JSA is a VERY interesting plot turn.

Good to see Rick and Grundy made up their differences. And Shade (who is still alive!) will tell Rick how to make sure he comes back.

I love Shade describing his fake death as his love for the dramatic.

I forget the mechanic's name but his reaction to Thunderbolt was priceless. It actually struck me as a bit alarming and sinister so I'm glad it was just a goof.

This wasn't a great season exactly. But I very much remember my harsh review of the premiere, and the truth is most of my fears were groundless. It WAS too dark for my taste, but not to the point where they wrecked the show going forward, which is the problem with most shows going dark. So I was wrong there. The season turned out all right. ****.