"Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" General Series Talkback (Spoilers)

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
34,245
Location
Framingham, MA
Back in the beforetimes of early Toon Zone, shows like The Sarah Conner Chronicles got individual episode talkbacks on this website. Rather than bump 31 different talkbacks and cluttering the board, I'mma create a general talkback for the first two seasons. I'm posting reviews for this show's first season below. If nobody else posts, I will naughtily double-post my reviews for the second season after I watch and have finished it. You have been warned.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Pilot"

It's an interesting premise to have John and Sarah Connor go forward five years to stop Skynet. But I am keeping this review short and my opinion agnostic. Why?

Because the first damn scene in the entire damn series was a dream sequence. If that isn't a bad omen for a crappy series, I don't know what is.

Now the rest of the episode was all right, and didn't live down to that basement level of suck. But Lord, I'm taking this one episode at a time, and am skeptical as hell. All due to that shady first scene. **1/2.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Gnothi Seauton"

I was confused by that and the previous episode. Until I realized they went FORWARD in time! Weird. I thought time travel only worked one way in this franchise.

Cameron shooting the dude was freaking dark. I'm only SLIGHTLY comforted it turned out he was dirty after all.

Sarah never having heard of 9/11 is interesting.

Having a hard time with this still. **1/2.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "The Turk"

That ending was nasty.

I didn't quite understand why the suicidal girl was so upset. If they really wanted us to feel and understand why she killed herself I wish they had given us some clearer context for it.

The series is going along, neither good nor bad so far. ***.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Heavy Metal"

The scene of the John having to get the key from behind the neck of the frozen Terminator in sleep mode was tense.

I'm curious what the last unsettling scene actually means for John.

I actually liked this episode. ****.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Queen's Gambit"

I love the ending of Charley showing up.

Good showing for Ellison too. He's one cool cucumber.

The stuff with Derek Reese is interesting. Brian Austin Greene isn't exactly a big name, but he was still the biggest name the show had at the time.

Very good. ****1/2.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Dungeons And Dragons"

Okay, not only do I not fully trust Cameron anymore, but I don't fully trust Derek either.

One good thing: Andy being in Derek's future flashbacks after having been killed in the last episode means the future CAN be changed. And it's one of the few Terminator projects outside of T2 that says that.

Charley is unlike every other Dean Winters role I can think of. The guy is actually LIKABLE for once in his life. I very much enjoy seeing him.

A lot of stuff happened in that episode that I didn't understand, and it worried me. It was still a good episode, I think. ***1/2.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "The Demon Hand"

That look on Derek's face at the end at Cameron's ballet is pure confusion.

Silberman was an interesting recast. Because Bruce Davison is actually a bigger name than Earl Boen. And while Boen certainly played whatever comic aspects the character held in the films well, I think Davison is better suited to him becoming a True Believer and a convert with an even more outward escalating madness than Sarah exhibited. I thought it was an incredibly interesting notion.

I realized I don't like Derek Reese much.

For that matter I don't dig Cameron either. That move she pulled of walking out of that apartment to leave Demetri and her ballet teacher to their deaths was coldblooded.

I thought it was a pretty tight episode otherwise. I hope this isn't the last we see of Silberman. He's an asset to the show. Which is not something I'd say about his character from the movies. ****1/2.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Vick's Chip"

What a dark and ethically-conflicted episode. I trust Cameron very little but I trust Derek even less. If he truly felt his murder of Andy was justified he wouldn't have lied about it.

The ending of Barbara's death on the film should NOT have been a surprise, but it still shocked and unsettled me anyways.

I think Derek is right to remind John one of these things will kill him someday. John has the only right response to that: It won't be this one.

That was a very tough episode to watch, much less like. But it was still very well-done. ***1/2.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "What He Beheld"

The slow-motion sequence of the agents falling and bleeding in the pool to a Johnny Cash song is one of the most effective scenes of a mass slaughter I have ever seen. The thing that is pure genius about it is that as horrific as it is to see, it's also remarkably non-graphic. I can't praise that fact enough. It's horrible on every level. And it didn't make me want to lose my lunch. Pure genius.

Derek's turning out to be all right after all.

I don't think Sarah was thinking clearly over Charley's warning / offer about Ellison. She was wrong to dismiss it and Charley. First of all, it shocks me, but it's true, the fact that Charley got out of the way at the crucial moment to avoid a potential killing shows he does not actually suck at this. Secondly, regarding Ellison, Sarah may be right that he can't protect them, but having a person in the FBI on their side would be a HELL of a resource, considering both the stakes and what they are up against. Frankly, Charley believing he could protect them is HIM thinking too small. But I forgive him overlooking the selling points of a team-up with Ellison because he's still so damn new at this. Sarah not getting the perks immediately bothers me more.

I love John instantly telling Cameron to say yes to that dude asking her to prom. If he were smarter he'd not only ask why John felt the need to order her to that, but also why she actually did what her supposed brother said instantly with no further thought attached. But he's a dumb kid crushing hard, so I get why he he isn't picking threads there.

I was leery starting the series because it's obviously gonna get canceled on a cliffhanger. If season two's cliffhanger is no worse than this one, I'll consider myself lucky. That was a pretty damn good finale otherwise too (while we're on the subject). ****1/2.
 

Fone Bone

Matt Zimmer
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
34,245
Location
Framingham, MA
Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Samson And Delilah"

Evil Cameron overplayed her hand. If she wanted to convince John she was fixed, she shouldn't have said she was in love with him. Because the fixed version of her wasn't. God, that means the Terminators are conniving, doesn't it? The only reason I can even forgive her at the end is her angrily telling Sarah to make sure John doesn't attempt to bring her back again if she goes bad again.

Charley's all right. Derek is surprised to learn it, but it's true.

The early episodes of the first season had a similar vibe to The Fugitive movie and they returned to that here. Big time.

Big episode back. ****.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Automatic For The People"

Lot of TV stars from the era can be seen here. Debra Wilson, Dean Norris, Busy Phillips, Sonya Walger, the dude who played Chappelle on 24.

I like that Cameron distrusts John now, but I especially like him telling her at the end that he doesn't care, and the only standards he needs to live up to are his own. That is resistance leader-quality talk right there.

Sarah asks Cameron if she's all right more than once. I don't think she is.

This new girl Riley has said some very odd things. If she either isn't from the future or a Terminator I'll be surprised.

Pretty cool. ****.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "The Mousetrap"

Poor Charley.

It was pretty cold that when Michelle tells Sarah she's surprised she came to help Charley rescue her, Sarah says she expected it to be easier and for her to be dead. OUCH. This is why no-one likes you, Sarah.

Brutal episode. ***1/2.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Allison From Palmdale"

That was disturbing as hell. Apparently Cameron has this whole violent horrible backstory nobody knows about. I get why Derek refuses to trust her. She strikes me especially as a lying sociopath, even for a Terminator. Her telling John they were in love in the season premiere should have been the giveaway.

Her lying about the necklace coming from a thrift store at the end was a totally unsettling place to leave the episode.

Sarah's stuff with her pregnant neighbor was more enjoyable, but despite this episode having a lack of real stakes or action, there was some dark stuff revealed about the backstory of the woman Cameron killed and replaced. Chilling. ***.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Goodbye To All That"

It was sort of stupid in the first movie that the Terminator looks up all of the Sarah Connors in the phone book and starts killing them off one by one, but as dumb an idea as it is, it's plausible for a movie made before the computer information age. This show using the same idea for Martin Bedell is simply not credible.

I liked Sarah's relationship to the boy however, mostly because she was so bad at it, and Marty was the one who had to put in the effort.

You'd think Derek went overboard in humiliating the goony kid excited about kills, but the truth is he was right.

Where wasn't he right? Telling John how the real Martin died. What purpose did that serve other than making John feel like crap?

Solid though. ***1/2.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "The Tower Is Tall, But The Fall Is Short"

Regardless of how it will end, it's a DAMN shame this show was canceled. That was some interesting television.

Derek's girlfriend being a deserter is a really interesting notion. But can you blame her? It's interesting the suicide Derek had been talking about with Sarah had been his own near-miss. I partly think the bit where his girlfriend insists they come up with a new name for what they did is badly written. But it's actually realistic. It's how a real person speaks when they are trying and failing to be deep. It doesn't matter that neither she nor Derek understand that's all that is. They don't need to be insightful for it to be credible.

Catherine seems the worst mother ever, but really how is Sarah any different? At least Catherine has the excuse that she ISN'T Savannah's mother, and isn't even human. Sarah immediately declaring there is nothing wrong with John is not just stupid. It's a crazy thing to believe and something only a bad mother would try to kid herself about. Derek and Cameron talking about suicides are much closer to the mark.

Regardless of whether this is a great show or not, I respect and love the fact that when the elevator door opens, Cameron and the new lady Terminator awkwardly pause their fight to not arouse suspicions with the people who get on. And that's the way this show is superior to the earlier films. None of the Terminators there would be smart enough to do that. It's also funny that only the little boy gets that that's what happened, and while part of you wants to see him stick around to keep the fight stopped, you realize him knowing the truth puts him in mortal danger, and it's a good thing his mother calls him away.

I haven't seen the fifth or sixth Terminator films. But I like this one because its idea of exploring the character's psyches is a lot different than James Cameron's, who put Sarah in a mental hospital because of what she knew. I appreciate this show knowing what it does about PTSD and veterans.

Excellent episode. I'm impressed. *****.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Brothers Of Nablus"

Most of this episode was foolish people, innocent and criminal alike, messing with people they had no business messing with.

As horrible as Cameron's killing spree at the bowling alley was, it was the right tactical move. Which is why Sarah has to go behind her back to spare the last survivor. Which, shocker, winds up a tactical mistake itself.

I am having a hard time keeping straight when Catherine is impersonating someone or not. Her flashing back to the cop who arrested Ellison sort of makes sense why he let him go. But it raises questions about why he arrested him. If Catherine killed the real detective and replaced him for this moment, won't questions be raised by him disappearing after this? I don't feel that held together well at all.

I feel John's rage at Sarah at the end, simply because I suspect he's right about why she doesn't want him hanging out with Riley. There are a lot of Oedipal relationships in fiction. It's surprising that on this show Sarah seems to have turned her and John into one.

Man, I don't like or trust this Sarah. And not just because she's Cersei. She's Cersei because Lena Headey can easily play manipulative, conniving, and cold, and her Sarah Connor is all of those things. Cersei was not Headey stretching as an actress being a villain after playing a hero. Sarah and Cersei have similar vibes going on, and did the entire time, including sadly, the incest vibe seen here. Sigh.

This episode landed more on the disturbing side, than the enjoyable side for me. **1/2.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Mr. Ferguson Is Ill Today"

Pretty brutal. The Terminator shooting spree plays a lot different in 2023 than it did when this first aired. There is no way they could get away with that on broadcast television today. It was upsetting.

Speaking of which, I continue to think Sarah sucks, and that as far as lead hero roles go, she's a dud. When Ellison says he lost a lot, his marriage, his career, Sarah coldly throws at him, "You consider that a lot?" Actually, you know what, Sarah? It is. Screw you for trying to make your loss and grief a contest. Just because you believe Ellison's life is small compared to yours, doesn't mean that Ellison thinks so. And honestly, it also doesn't mean it is. Maybe, MAYBE Ellison's marriage and career ARE that important. That ever occur to you, you raging narcissist?

I'm struggling to sympathize with Sarah on any level. It's not just the way she's written. I'm thinking having someone as unlikable as Headey in the role means she was miscast from the start. I've always had these misgivings in the back of my head, but kept my mouth shut because people love her in the role. I do not.

Sigh. It was a tense episode though. I'll give it that. **1/2.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Complications"

Intriguing episode. The ending raised a lot of questions for me.

Derek and Jesse puzzling out the idea that he perhaps didn't remember the dude because he came from a different future is an incredibly interesting idea. It says that the future can be changed, and not everyone who comes back will be from the same timeline.

You knew he was guilty just because they got Richard Schiff to play him. They wouldn't have bothered with a Serious Actor if this was all some sort of mistake.

For the record, Cameron appears to be from the timeline that's never heard of him either.

Sarah says she's had bad experiences with psychiatrists in the past. I dislike that woman, but damn it, that's true!

Ellison really let me down at the end. I thought he was smarter than this. I had half hoped he was secretly playing Weaver. Nope, turns out he's sincerely this dumb.

I still liked it. ***1/2.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Strange Things Happen At The One-Two Point"

I knew Riley was dirty from the get-go. A non-sinister person in this scenario would simply never want to see John again. The fact that she is so understanding means she's a liar and traitor.

I am VERY unhappy with Sherman's fate. VERY. It happening that way makes me realize that the arcs and mythology of this show are a lot shoddier and not as well-planned out as I thought. Dorian Harewood was robbed if you ask me.

Man, that ending. Look what you did, Ellison.

Sarah seems especially unhinged this episode. I really don't like her.

The episode was all right, and the ending was killer, but I'm not giving it a passing grade because of what they did to Sherman. **.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Self Made Man"

That was a REALLY depressing ending. The thing that kills me is it was a great episode otherwise. The mystery Cameron and her friend were solving was great and the pay-off was unexpectedly rewarding too. But the show can't ever let us have anything ever, can it? I find that annoying.

Speaking of which if Riley's job is to shadow John, she sucks at it because she's making herself as off-putting to the dude as possible. Yes, as she noted, she's a teenage girl, but you'd think Mexico would have told her this assignment was real and not something to screw around with.

A solid episode with an unnecessarily crappy ending. ***.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Alpine Fields"

That was a really good episode.

The one false note to me was Derek claiming younger people adapt to life and death scenarios easier. I don't believe that. The youth believe they are untouchable and will live forever. I'm not saying it wouldn't be easier for a smart kid like Lauren compared to her lazy suburban parents. But I genuinely think their dynamic is probably an outlier there.

I thought it was interesting Lauren covered for her mother calling Roger. After meeting Roger I think her mother is doubly stupid for calling him. He's useless, and a total dud.

Seeing the meeting between Derek and Jesse where she startles him out of committing suicide is somehow exactly as dynamic and powerful and funny as described. Usually crap like that doesn't live up to its description. It's weird and cool this did.

I also like that Lauren was the nurse in the future and she and Derek were meeting again in the wrong order (for him).

I liked it a lot. ****1/2.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Earthlings Welcome Here"

What an ending. Wow.

Ilene's story was absolutely tragic, made worse because she is clearly one of TV's earliest transgender characters. The show doesn't get everything right, but it's still unusual and admirable for that. You look at the difference between Ilene and the woman on Ally McBeal and it's freaking night and day. It would have been nice if they had hired an actual transgender person for the role, but again, it's an early effort. But it still feels empowering rather than negative.

I suspect a woman was cast because the episode WANTED the surprise Crying Game twist, and it would be easier casting that way. But maybe the twist isn't really a great idea, and maybe easy casting isn't something people should be looking for about this subject.

What a mess at the end. How is Sarah gonna explain all that? Her bloody fingerprints are literally everywhere.

If the show isn't careful it will make me feel sorry for Riley. What I can say is that I believe Jesse is an actual Black Hat. She may not be working for the machines but I believe her agenda of separating John and Cameron would ultimately help them. And the machines probably know it and that's why they haven't really come after her or Riley.

I found that pretty devastating, actually. ****.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "The Good Wound"

It was kind of obvious that the canny and likable sheriff WAS in fact Felicia's abusive ex. And it played beautifully for that reason. It played like it couldn't have ended any other way. People talk down predictable television. Sometimes... SOMETIMES it occurring just the way it should is the best possible feeling while watching it.

John Henry alarms me. Weaver alarms me. I'm wondering how stupid Ellison is to introduce the AI to a fear-based religious mindset. He's not an actual expert. Has he thought about the potential harm this line of thought could cause? Frankly, I think he should have gone to Team Connor about two weeks ago with the truth, and to tried and get them help him clean up his mess.

Learning that Riley did the suicide attempt to manipulate John makes me think even less of her than I already do. And I already thought nothing but bad things.

I like when John asks Cameron what Future John would do about Riley she correctly says Future John has more important things to worry about. It's both entirely unhelpful as far as advice goes, and considering Riley's actual shady motives, 100% the right advice at the same time.

I was interested to see the shoulder stab wound the T-1000 gave Sarah in the second film was brought up. I was like, "Oh, yeah, the show loosely follows the first two movies' continuity." Totally forgot about that.

I like Derek telling John he has to stay at the hospital because he made his call. Absolutely 100% right.

I liked more than I didn't. And the predictable things were predictable for the right reasons. ****.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Desert Cantos"

That ending says things may already be too late to actually stop.

That is NOT the widow you want to pal around with, Sarah. It didn't end terribly, thank God, but it COULD have. She should stay away from situations like that.

Speaking of which, I will not thank the show for reminding me Weaver is taking care of a small girl as her "daughter" and currently terrorizing her. About the best thing I can say for the scene where she has her sit on her lap is that she doesn't morph into the kid's dead father to "comfort" her. I'm betting the producers actually considered that bit before realizing it would be too horrific.

I like that out of Team Connor, Cameron was the one to notice the family wasn't looking at the supposed dead guy's photo. Because he's not dead. She'd make an excellent cop,

Speaking of which, I like that the cop played by Max Perlich says his precinct was down in Baltimore.

Twisty, unpredictable episode. ****.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Some Must Watch While Some Must Sleep"

I did not understand that episode at all. As far as Fear / Nightmare Trope sci-fi mysteries go, this one didn't hold together, and there was no logic to it. Not being able to understand its reality also lowered the stakes as the episode was going on. And the stuff with John and Cameron at the vending machine (as well as during the phone call) confused the perspectives a LOT.

Dreamlike episodes actually don't have to be airtight to work. Which should tell you how messy I considered this, since I won't tolerate it instead. *.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Ourselves Alone"

Wow, Jesse is FAR more evil and detestable than I predicted.

The thing that kills me is that her plan is really obvious in hindsight. I can't believe I was actually surprised.

For the record Derek, your judgment sucks.

That was huge. *****.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Today Is The Day, Part 1"

Kind of an underwhelming cliffhanger but the rest of the episode was pretty great.

Jesse is only getting away with what she is because nobody else knows who she is. Once she and the Connors meet legit every lie she's told is gonna come out.

It seems pretty clear to me that Cameron didn't kill Riley just because I don't think she'd deny it. Why doesn't Sarah get that? And why isn't John scraping the DNA he saw under Riley's fingernails to get tested?

The episode was good and frustrating in equal measure. ****.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Today Is The Day, Part 2"

Honestly? This is the kind of thing I love, and something genre needs to do more of. The meat and drama of this episode are conversations and revelations between the characters rather than action set pieces.

And let me just say, Jesse strikes me as a wholly inadequate villain if her plan was to frame Cameron for Riley's murder just on her say-so to Derek. That's beyond stupid. It's so stupid and a waste of a life that it angers me as much as it does John. And when John revealed even if he HAD learned Cameron had killed her, he wouldn't have either sent her away or killed her, the audience is not remotely surprised. Why is Jesse?

Derek's last scene with her was powerful too. Did he kill her? Considering the series is dead and buried, I suppose it doesn't really matter.

We also learned something interesting about Jesse's mission she never told Derek. She's hinted she was acting on behalf of a group of people who believe John Connor trusted the machines too much. In reality, the only ally she had for this sick plan was Riley and she was tricking and using her (and wound up killing her). This entire dumb idea was unilaterally decided by her. It's kind of vulgar if you think about it.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the season because I believe Weaver will make a better Big Bad against John than Jesse did. That being said, I adored the fact that this episode was so talky and it's conflicts were down to characters revealing things to each other. *****.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "To The Lighthouse"

Damn it. Poor Charley. I could have done without this happening in the third to last damn episode.

Sarah says she no longer trusts Derek and Cameron. I'm calling b.s. on half of that statement. I don't believe for one second she EVER trusted Cameron.

John Henry's stuff keeps getting more and more disturbing and my respect for Ellison keeps getting less and less.

Derek says Cameron was right to tell him what she did, but I think it actually partly may have been a way for her to kind of twist the knife. Derek was a very big part of trying to generate a rift between her and the Connors. Yeah, he never would have signed off on Jesse's plan had he known the extent of it. But he supported her goals regardless, and I'm thinking Cameron was sort of trying to get back at him for that. Because regardless of whether or not Jesse managed to separate them, the fact is their alliance is weaker than before Riley came into their lives.

I'm not giving that a super high grade because Charley's death feels so freaking unnecessary to me. ***.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Adam Raised A Cain"

I have come to my decision about the series. Second to last episode. I don't like the series. It's had its share of good episodes, but I will not be sad to say goodbye to it, or miss it. There will be no demands for a revival from me, no matter how it ends.

I was like "The series is losing me for the death of Charley." And the pointless death of Derek made me like "There's no reason for this show to have lasted any more seasons past." I will not agree with any fan of it who claims Fox treated it poorly. I'm going to say it drove off its audience entirely on its own. I'm not remotely surprised Fox bailed after this.

I'm glad this is out of my To-Watch list, and even gladder it's about to be over. This just sucks. *.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles "Born To Run"

It's a clever way to bring Derek back and I like the idea that Weaver is actually against Skynet (as is John Henry). But really, it's better off the series ended. That ending seemed a lot more complex than I think the franchise could comfortably handle.

Brian Austin Greene still being in the main titles was an excellent troll and clue from the writers. Still, the truth is the version of the character we had grown to know is now dead, and it wouldn't have been the same when the show returned, even if they somehow undid the death in the present due to time travel hijinks. It was a clever twist that might have been too clever for its own good.

I will say something interesting. Learning Weaver is both on their side and willing to go to these lengths to prevent Skynet from ever starting says in this continuity it might have been possible for the heroes to have won had the series continued. Still, it was kind of a slog to get to this point.

I will not be rewatching this anytime soon, but if and when I do I will be paying attention to whether or not all of the crazy murderous stuff Weaver does throughout the season CAN actually perhaps be explained as her working for the greater good against Skynet, or if that idea doesn't hold up at all. It certainly gives added context to her claim that John Henry's survival is the thing that will ensure Savannah's survival.

I also think her role potentially becoming that of an antihero in season 3 WOULD have been interesting. Her saving the Connors' lives WAS the biggest surprise of the episode.

Was she working with John Connor in the future? I have my doubts. She appears to be a T-1000. I can't possibly figure out how Future John could reprogram her. It's likelier to me she reached her conclusions entirely on her own and future John had no idea what she was up to until their timelines changed at the end.

I'm wondering if attempting to teach John Henry empathy and morality were a big part of her plans to take down Skynet. Because if they were, it's not a terrible plan at all.

Question: Why is Weaver naked when she gets to the future? She isn't actually EVER wearing clothes, after all.

That scene with Cameron and John of him fixing her while lying on top of her in bed is the sexiest scene I've ever seen that didn't end in actual sex.

It could have been a worse series finale, but honestly, I'm glad it's over. It was becoming an ordeal. ****.
 

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