The economic recession and the TV-on-DVD market

[Jonathan Teka]

Here's a question: Is the 2008 economic crash the one to blame for Disney having to stop releasing DVDs of their Disney Afternoon shows? I've heard that the 2008 economic crash had forced major companies to cut back on big spending.

 

[coldglynx]

Here's a question: Is the 2008 economic crash the one to blame for Disney having to stop releasing DVDs of their Disney Afternoon shows? I've heard that the 2008 economic crash had forced major companies to cut back on big spending.

There were many factors. That was one of them but the biggest factor was the down turn of the home video market. Remember this was when Youtube and Netflix were also on the rise.

 

[Antiyonder]

Definitely think it's more factors as opposed to streaming. Even then it's hard to say what the exact factors are.

1. The fans or the company? Take Gargoyles for example. Greg Weisman himself stated that Disney was satisfied for the most part with the sales for Season 1, thus we got Season 2 Volume 1.

And by his own statement, Disney was disappointed in the sales for S2 V1, hence why the wait for the remainder of Season 2 was so long. Search Ask Greg : Gargoyles : Station Eight

But this is also why I said that I don't really know the exact factors.

Does Disney have higher expectations for their DVDs? Do the fans of the DA lack ambition in supporting said DVD?

I think partially yes on the latter at least if Gargoyles was an indicator. Heck you had people who even before a year passed since S2 V1's release stated that they wouldn't purchase it until Disney caved and released the whole season even though said decision guarantees a longer wait which it did (finally hitting shelves in 2013 as well as the last bit of Tale Spin).

People even try to argue that Warner Bros was much cooler and just released everything instantly except they didn't.

Whether it's Batman The Animated Series, OG Powerpuff Girls or Adventure Time they definitely started off with single discs, then season sets and later series sets (heck PPG didn't even have all seasons sold on their own before the complete series DVD).

I mean I think the shows (speaking of Kim Possible and The Weekenders as well) given any DVDs at all have finally sold, but only slowly overtime as opposed to immediately after release. Even Avatar the Last Airbender or a tried and true Nicktoon like Spongebob started out with single disc releases which didn't even have the episodes in original order.

I'm just saying I don't think WB or Nick went to Season Sets out of the kindness of their hearts.

I think that's one reason I'm less critical of Disney than I was in the 2000s. Still critical here and there it's just that again when you look at how WBs and Nick often start out with single discs before the bigger season sets, I think it should be taken into consideration that DuckTales, Rescue Rangers, Tale Spin and Gargoyles got sets of 13-27 episodes from the get go.

And yes some of us in the Gargoyles fandom were expecting at best for the first DVD to just be Awakening. Heck I wonder how many or how little views they got when Gargoyles was actually uploaded officially back on Disney's YT page. I mean when it's on a browser friendly side and legally free to view you really can't justify hesitancy to view it.

But then I feel like if you really want Disney to pay more attention to the Disney Afternoon or any cartoon properties that are older than 3 years, yeah anytime they're willing to toss sell some dog bones, be ready to spend upon release or pre-ordering.

Basically if you think they'd be better off doing more with their old properties, words aren't enough, action is.*

2. And while all companies that produce entertainment for kids are more often going to play it safe, Disney moreso since they strive to be the safest company for kids and family.

So yeah older shows have things that wouldn't necessarily fly with a Y7 rating like their modern shows such as Scrooge firing off his rifle to scare of Fenton in 1987 DuckTales or Darkwarrior Duck prepared to fire what appeared to be a gas gun towards Gosalyn. And yeah Gargoyles alone did things like that often.

That and who knows. Maybe Disney like some authority figures trying too hard to be cool just feel like all kids are against anything older than them:-D. I mean kidding aside up until Plus, it definitely felt like Disney was embarrassed of their older properties compared to other companies which would more often take opportunities to make their older works widely available.

Like anyone remember the now closed In2TV. Basically like Hulu before it became a service to pay for, it was a video site where classic Warner Bros, Hanna Barbera and other oldies they owned were legally distributed.

And besides finally having done DVD sets of their older shows (through Shout Factory and even lately themselves) and letting them stream on services like Netflix and Hulu, you have/had Teen Nick's block of 90s Nick.

That said yeah I think it is merely underestimating old properties in general. I mean they still had some good 2000s fare which also fell off the radar.


I'm sure Netflix and YT play a role in them hesitating to do Home Video releases (more often), but surely then prior to plus they could have just uploaded them to their own YT Channel like they did for Gargoyles for a time or even license them out to Netflix like they did with the handful of Marvel toons in the early 2010s.

In short yeah I'd say it's just probably other factors, but even then the specifics aren't clear. Lack of fan ambition, or just higher expectations of success than the competition?

*These recommendations are only to be considered if money isn't an issue, but some outlets to look into as of current that I can see:

- Obviously get Disney Plus or if you have it just make time when possible to stream anything say Pre-2018.

- Gravity Falls currently has a full DVD set with all episodes, plus a sequel comic 4 Lost Legends.

- A Disney Adventure collection coming June which reprints adaptations of A Goofy Movie, the Darkwing Duck two parter "Just US Justice Ducks", plus the 5 part crossover story "Legends of the Chaos God". So yeah Not available yet, but I imagine pre-ordering would be a good move.

 

[Jonathan Teka]

Definitely think it's more factors as opposed to streaming. Even then it's hard to say what the exact factors are.

1. The fans or the company? Take Gargoyles for example. Greg Weisman himself stated that Disney was satisfied for the most part with the sales for Season 1, thus we got Season 2 Volume 1.

And by his own statement, Disney was disappointed in the sales for S2 V1, hence why the wait for the remainder of Season 2 was so long. Search Ask Greg : Gargoyles : Station Eight

But this is also why I said that I don't really know the exact factors.

Does Disney have higher expectations for their DVDs? Do the fans of the DA lack ambition in supporting said DVD?

I think partially yes on the latter at least if Gargoyles was an indicator. Heck you had people who even before a year passed since S2 V1's release stated that they wouldn't purchase it until Disney caved and released the whole season even though said decision guarantees a longer wait which it did (finally hitting shelves in 2013 as well as the last bit of Tale Spin).

People even try to argue that Warner Bros was much cooler and just released everything instantly except they didn't.

Whether it's Batman The Animated Series, OG Powerpuff Girls or Adventure Time they definitely started off with single discs, then season sets and later series sets (heck PPG didn't even have all seasons sold on their own before the complete series DVD).

I mean I think the shows (speaking of Kim Possible and The Weekenders as well) given any DVDs at all have finally sold, but only slowly overtime as opposed to immediately after release. Even Avatar the Last Airbender or a tried and true Nicktoon like Spongebob started out with single disc releases which didn't even have the episodes in original order.

I'm just saying I don't think WB or Nick went to Season Sets out of the kindness of their hearts.

I think that's one reason I'm less critical of Disney than I was in the 2000s. Still critical here and there it's just that again when you look at how WBs and Nick often start out with single discs before the bigger season sets, I think it should be taken into consideration that DuckTales, Rescue Rangers, Tale Spin and Gargoyles got sets of 13-27 episodes from the get go.

And yes some of us in the Gargoyles fandom were expecting at best for the first DVD to just be Awakening. Heck I wonder how many or how little views they got when Gargoyles was actually uploaded officially back on Disney's YT page. I mean when it's on a browser friendly side and legally free to view you really can't justify hesitancy to view it.

But then I feel like if you really want Disney to pay more attention to the Disney Afternoon or any cartoon properties that are older than 3 years, yeah anytime they're willing to toss sell some dog bones, be ready to spend upon release or pre-ordering.

Basically if you think they'd be better off doing more with their old properties, words aren't enough, action is.*

2. And while all companies that produce entertainment for kids are more often going to play it safe, Disney moreso since they strive to be the safest company for kids and family.

So yeah older shows have things that wouldn't necessarily fly with a Y7 rating like their modern shows such as Scrooge firing off his rifle to scare of Fenton in 1987 DuckTales or Darkwarrior Duck prepared to fire what appeared to be a gas gun towards Gosalyn. And yeah Gargoyles alone did things like that often.

That and who knows. Maybe Disney like some authority figures trying too hard to be cool just feel like all kids are against anything older than them:-D. I mean kidding aside up until Plus, it definitely felt like Disney was embarrassed of their older properties compared to other companies which would more often take opportunities to make their older works widely available.

Like anyone remember the now closed In2TV. Basically like Hulu before it became a service to pay for, it was a video site where classic Warner Bros, Hanna Barbera and other oldies they owned were legally distributed.

And besides finally having done DVD sets of their older shows (through Shout Factory and even lately themselves) and letting them stream on services like Netflix and Hulu, you have/had Teen Nick's block of 90s Nick.

That said yeah I think it is merely underestimating old properties in general. I mean they still had some good 2000s fare which also fell off the radar.


I'm sure Netflix and YT play a role in them hesitating to do Home Video releases (more often), but surely then prior to plus they could have just uploaded them to their own YT Channel like they did for Gargoyles for a time or even license them out to Netflix like they did with the handful of Marvel toons in the early 2010s.

In short yeah I'd say it's just probably other factors, but even then the specifics aren't clear. Lack of fan ambition, or just higher expectations of success than the competition?

*These recommendations are only to be considered if money isn't an issue, but some outlets to look into as of current that I can see:

- Obviously get Disney Plus or if you have it just make time when possible to stream anything say Pre-2018.

- Gravity Falls currently has a full DVD set with all episodes, plus a sequel comic 4 Lost Legends.

- A Disney Adventure collection coming June which reprints adaptations of A Goofy Movie, the Darkwing Duck two parter "Just US Justice Ducks", plus the 5 part crossover story "Legends of the Chaos God". So yeah Not available yet, but I imagine pre-ordering would be a good move.

Wow. That seems like a mouthful.

 

[Antiyonder]

Wow. That seems like a mouthful.

I mean do you agree or disagree with what I said? I just like to explain myself as much as possible than short/vague opinions.

 

[Jonathan Teka]

I mean do you agree or disagree with what I said? I just like to explain myself as much as possible than short/vague opinions.

Well, I guess I do agree with you for some of what you said.

 

[Antiyonder]

I mean yeah there are a lot of shows outside of Disney that have yet to get a (complete) release, but at the end of the day other companies have released a very healthy number of DVDs in both individual seasons and series.

Even just listing the various DC Comics stuff outside the DCAU would as you put it be a mouth full. They even in the recent years finished up with Static Shock, The Zeta Project and Legion of Super Heroes.

 

[wonderfly]

This only partially relates to Disney, but....if 2008 is when the DVD market started to decline, when did it die all together?

I mean, yes, they still make DVDs, but....I mean, I've shared this previously, but I have these memories of going to our local Best Buy, from 2005 to 2009, and the DVD section was HUGE, rows upon rows, and then I stopped going to Best Buy due to "real life", but I returned to the same Best Buy a few years later (around 2016), and the DVD section was a small sliver of one corner of the store.

So at some point between 2008 and 2016, the DVD market collapsed completely.

 

[Antiyonder]

So at some point between 2008 and 2016, the DVD market collapsed completely.

Mostly maybe, but 2018 at least saw a full on series set for Adventure Time (despite all 10 seasons being released individually), Gravity Falls from Disney, Nick releasing their own Hey Arnold series set (without Shout Factory's involvement and even has the original theatrical version of "24 Hours to Live", and the two films). Heck despite debuting on stream, Young Justice Season 3 even got a season set in 2019.

 

[wonderfly]

Mostly maybe, but 2018 at least saw a full on series set for Adventure Time (despite all 10 seasons being released individually), Gravity Falls from Disney, Nick releasing their own Hey Arnold series set (without Shout Factory's involvement and even has the original theatrical version of "24 Hours to Live", and the two films). Heck despite debuting on stream, Young Justice Season 3 even got a season set in 2019.

Okay, but....those aren't being promoted in retail stores (like Walmart or Best Buy) in big displays. It seems DVD releases are now targeted to "niche" audiences who know where to look online.

And maybe that's the difference/transition of the DVD market in the last 5 years: it's aimed at niche collectors now.

 

[Heeroyuy_Batman]

I don't understand what Disney's strategy for selling tv series on dvd was/is. To me, at least, it makes more sense for Disney to have first put out series connected to Disney movies like The Little Mermaid, Aladdin: The Series, The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, Hercules: The Series, etc.. This is because other than Gargoyles, Duck Tales, Kim Possible, Recess, and maybe Darkwing Duck there wouldn't have been as much sales potential for other series as those connected to Disney movies. Plus, the series connected to movies would be easier to market and advertise.

 

[Kirben]

Disney never showed much interest in releasing their cartoon series on DVD, it was not related to the market dying over time. The problem was Disney expected their cartoon series to sell like hot cakes, like their movies, while I expect the cartoon series only sold well enough to cover the costs.

Even the sub-license of Gravity Falls for a complete series release seems to have failed, since we have not seen any other cartoon series sub-licensed as a result.

Warner Bros. released a stack of cartoon series on DVD by comparison, but those DVD releases were worthless, since they cropped (to 4:3) every series from the 2000s. I think it is better to have no releases at all, rather than not getting uncut releases.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

Disney never showed much interest in releasing their cartoon series on DVD, it was not related to the market dying over time. The problem was Disney expected their cartoon series to sell like hot cakes, like their movies, while I expect the cartoon series only sold well enough to cover the costs.

That really bugs me in a big way, considering that I would've loved to see Kim Possible getting a complete series box set in time for the live-action film.

I think it is better to have no releases at all, rather than not getting uncut releases.

Eh, not really sure about that.

 

[harry580]

I wonder why Disney hasn't made a deal with shout factory to release Disney afternoon and fox kids/jetix shows on dvd

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

I wonder why Disney hasn't made a deal with Shout Factory to release Disney Afternoon and Fox Kids/Jetix shows on DVD.

I think @Kirben's post summed it best.

Disney never showed much interest in releasing their cartoon series on DVD, it was not related to the market dying over time. The problem was Disney expected their cartoon series to sell like hot cakes, like their movies, while I expect the cartoon series only sold well enough to cover the costs.

Even the sub-license of Gravity Falls for a complete series release seems to have failed, since we have not seen any other cartoon series sub-licensed as a result.

Warner Bros. released a stack of cartoon series on DVD by comparison, but those DVD releases were worthless, since they cropped (to 4:3) every series from the 2000s. I think it is better to have no releases at all, rather than not getting uncut releases.

 

[Jonathan Teka]

Disney never showed much interest in releasing their cartoon series on DVD, it was not related to the market dying over time. The problem was Disney expected their cartoon series to sell like hot cakes, like their movies, while I expect the cartoon series only sold well enough to cover the costs.

Even the sub-license of Gravity Falls for a complete series release seems to have failed, since we have not seen any other cartoon series sub-licensed as a result.

Warner Bros. released a stack of cartoon series on DVD by comparison, but those DVD releases were worthless, since they cropped (to 4:3) every series from the 2000s. I think it is better to have no releases at all, rather than not getting uncut releases.

You're telling me... Gravity Falls: The Complete Series didn't sell well?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

You're telling me... Gravity Falls: The Complete Series didn't sell well?

I think that's what @Kirben was exactly saying it was the reason why Disney has not sublicenced their shows to third party distributors for home media releases.

 

[Classic Speedy]

Up until Disney+, Disney had always treated its TV animation like the black sheep, IMO. It gave far more attention and care to its theatrical releases.

In that sense, Disney+ is the best thing to ever happen to DTA; it gave it a new lease on life that it couldn't have gotten on physical home video.

 

[harry580]

we know that Disney Plus have shows that never got released onto dvd but what about Jetix/fox kids shows where does that go?.....hulu?

 

[Kirben]

There is one Jetix series (Super Robot Monkey Team Hyperforce Go!) on Disney Plus so far, so we might see more Jetix series added in the future, and hopefully in widescreen next time.
Most of the cartoon series on Fox Kids were not actually owned by 20th Century Fox, so never going to see those added.