Troy Troodon
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2014
- Messages
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As those of you may know, Damian Wayne is the estranged, biological of Bruce Wayne/Batman and the fourth Robin, and since his creation the character has endured mixed reception, mostly leaning to people hating him for basically being a jerk, yet other people seem to like him because he's a jerk; either account is subjective, after all opinions are opinions.
Now here's where I stand in this trilemma, I don't hate Damian, I don't even dislike him, sure he's aggressive, and can be pretty rude, but I kind'a see him as a reflection of his father the Bat himself, in how he's brusk but not heartless, callous and pigheaded but not barbaric or unethical (for the most part) so in concept there should still be a genuine sense of humanity inside of him... if not for one unredeemable factor... after I deviate a bit and go into other people's fixation with the jerk archetype first.
Now, it's no surprise, we do have this strange fascination with jerks; whether we enjoy them for how malicious they are in being an antagonist, laugh at them for their comedic slapstick misfortune, or even cheer them on as the protagonist, there's always something so interesting, and even endearing about the jerk archetype we can't help but be allured to, perhaps mainly because they're an escapist reflection of ourselves in how they do things we want to do but chose not to due to our conscience, yet some still have their own sense of humanity to make them likable, with the case of protagonists here are some examples--
Well... here's a revelation I had, Damian Wayne is not a character-- let me repeat that-- Damian Wayne is NOT a character!
Here's a theory I just recently had, in that Grant Morrison basically created Damian not as a character, but a plot device, a walking, talking, butt-kicking plot device sure but a plot device never the less. Damian does not truly develop as a character, he gains no maternal experience under the superhero wing, he acts basically the same through the entirety of his arc. I mean don't get me wrong, there have been plenty of good stories told with him like being the brood to Dick Grayson's preppy light hearted nature in their own Batman and Robin dynamic; and there are bits in the comics where he is... kind of a bad-ass, but for the most part this only works in Damian's favor not as a character but as a plot tool, that's why Damian never truly changes since he became Robin.
And that's the major problem with Damian AS a character, Damian for a lack of a better term is essentially a NAAWB; what the heck is a NAAWB you ask?!
Non-Interesting
Average
Adolescent
White
Boy
There's nothing really interesting about Damian, there's nothing unique about him, we've practically seen this kind of character a million times before even in superhero comics, and it's not even a different take on Robin; (Jason Todd anyone?) we have seen this character type before, the snarky, sassy, butt-headed tough guy who acts all stern and crass and makes insensitive comments when they're rude or even inappropriate; and it's not even done properly!
The most important key to writing any character who we're suppose to despise but still find entertaining and even relatable to a degree is that they must have something for the audience to connect with; whether they are the main protagonist with a troubled past who is misguided and falters on past mistakes, the main villain who we fear but still see a bit of ourselves in, or a more tragic antagonist who we want to sympathies with, or even a character who's just some jackass but we still enjoy for being entertaining, as well as having their own genuine moments of humanity. Either way something has to be recognized! Because they all come from real places, and it's those real places that serve as the foundation for developing and fleshing out your character and make them feel like an actual person, but if you don't incorporate those real-life elements then you loose that connection.
This is why Damian Wayne (for the most part at least) doesn't work as a character, Damian is basically just a shell of all the other great jerks and without any concept of what made those other characters so interesting and enjoyable in the first place.
There's hardly anything relatable about him, practically little to nothing about Damian makes him stand our as his own unique entity as apposed to being like a dime in a dozen other character we've already seen before; and there's barely anything redeeming that justifies his actions, there is no compromise.
Another such flaw with Damian, at least from a meta perspective is that the people who made him or write him in their work, including Grant Morrison himself, just leave it to the audience whether we should like him or not, when really it should be in the direct responsibility of the creative team to manipulate their audience into liking the character or at least try and understand why the character acts the the way they do and see how they can bring resolution to close the circle in order for the character to evolve; but if you make no attempt to understand a character's negativity you'll never be able to give proper direction, and that's why Damian Wayne is not a character, he is a tool; a bland, violent, and pointless tool!
Never the less though, I still see potential for Damian, I do see sometime in the future Damian can develop as a character and achieve something to make more people appreciate him as a character, and that's why I can't hate him, because he's not really a character, but he can still evolve as a character, a character more people can like.
Or at least that's my input.
Now here's where I stand in this trilemma, I don't hate Damian, I don't even dislike him, sure he's aggressive, and can be pretty rude, but I kind'a see him as a reflection of his father the Bat himself, in how he's brusk but not heartless, callous and pigheaded but not barbaric or unethical (for the most part) so in concept there should still be a genuine sense of humanity inside of him... if not for one unredeemable factor... after I deviate a bit and go into other people's fixation with the jerk archetype first.
Now, it's no surprise, we do have this strange fascination with jerks; whether we enjoy them for how malicious they are in being an antagonist, laugh at them for their comedic slapstick misfortune, or even cheer them on as the protagonist, there's always something so interesting, and even endearing about the jerk archetype we can't help but be allured to, perhaps mainly because they're an escapist reflection of ourselves in how they do things we want to do but chose not to due to our conscience, yet some still have their own sense of humanity to make them likable, with the case of protagonists here are some examples--
- Garfield
- BoJack Horseman
- Squidward
- Mr. Krabbs
- Daffy Duck
- Bugs Bunny
- Tom & Jerry
- Donald Duck
- Chip & Dale
- Helga from Hey Arnold
- Moe, Carl, and Lenny from the Simpsons
- Professor Farnsworth and Bender from Futurama
- Rick from Rick and Morty
- Jessica Jones
- John Constantine
- Deadpool
- Wolverine
- Jason Todd
- Arsene Lupin
- Lobo
- Rigby, Vincent, and Muscle Man from Regular Show
- Dan from Dan Vs.
- Peter Veckman from Ghostbusters
- Vegeta
- Grim and Mandy
- Invader Zim
- Rainbowdash
- Discord (a reformed antagonist turned ally)
- Raphael of TMNT fame
- Norb and Dagg from the Angry Beavers
- Nick Wylde from Zootopia
- Eddy from Ed, Edd, & Eddy
Well... here's a revelation I had, Damian Wayne is not a character-- let me repeat that-- Damian Wayne is NOT a character!
Here's a theory I just recently had, in that Grant Morrison basically created Damian not as a character, but a plot device, a walking, talking, butt-kicking plot device sure but a plot device never the less. Damian does not truly develop as a character, he gains no maternal experience under the superhero wing, he acts basically the same through the entirety of his arc. I mean don't get me wrong, there have been plenty of good stories told with him like being the brood to Dick Grayson's preppy light hearted nature in their own Batman and Robin dynamic; and there are bits in the comics where he is... kind of a bad-ass, but for the most part this only works in Damian's favor not as a character but as a plot tool, that's why Damian never truly changes since he became Robin.
And that's the major problem with Damian AS a character, Damian for a lack of a better term is essentially a NAAWB; what the heck is a NAAWB you ask?!
Non-Interesting
Average
Adolescent
White
Boy
There's nothing really interesting about Damian, there's nothing unique about him, we've practically seen this kind of character a million times before even in superhero comics, and it's not even a different take on Robin; (Jason Todd anyone?) we have seen this character type before, the snarky, sassy, butt-headed tough guy who acts all stern and crass and makes insensitive comments when they're rude or even inappropriate; and it's not even done properly!
The most important key to writing any character who we're suppose to despise but still find entertaining and even relatable to a degree is that they must have something for the audience to connect with; whether they are the main protagonist with a troubled past who is misguided and falters on past mistakes, the main villain who we fear but still see a bit of ourselves in, or a more tragic antagonist who we want to sympathies with, or even a character who's just some jackass but we still enjoy for being entertaining, as well as having their own genuine moments of humanity. Either way something has to be recognized! Because they all come from real places, and it's those real places that serve as the foundation for developing and fleshing out your character and make them feel like an actual person, but if you don't incorporate those real-life elements then you loose that connection.
This is why Damian Wayne (for the most part at least) doesn't work as a character, Damian is basically just a shell of all the other great jerks and without any concept of what made those other characters so interesting and enjoyable in the first place.
There's hardly anything relatable about him, practically little to nothing about Damian makes him stand our as his own unique entity as apposed to being like a dime in a dozen other character we've already seen before; and there's barely anything redeeming that justifies his actions, there is no compromise.
Another such flaw with Damian, at least from a meta perspective is that the people who made him or write him in their work, including Grant Morrison himself, just leave it to the audience whether we should like him or not, when really it should be in the direct responsibility of the creative team to manipulate their audience into liking the character or at least try and understand why the character acts the the way they do and see how they can bring resolution to close the circle in order for the character to evolve; but if you make no attempt to understand a character's negativity you'll never be able to give proper direction, and that's why Damian Wayne is not a character, he is a tool; a bland, violent, and pointless tool!
Never the less though, I still see potential for Damian, I do see sometime in the future Damian can develop as a character and achieve something to make more people appreciate him as a character, and that's why I can't hate him, because he's not really a character, but he can still evolve as a character, a character more people can like.
Or at least that's my input.
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