"Toonami" News & Discussion Thread

PicardMan

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I guess they have more motivation since the show back on tv again. ;)

Toonami's hundreds of episodes from where the dub is, so I think the timing of the dub speeding up is just a coincidence. Besides, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people watching the One Piece dub are doing so on streaming platforms.
 

WickedChild

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On the topic of CGI, it seems like it was extremely rare to see in anime before the mid 2010s trend of Western co-productions. I don't know why as it seems like the American fanbase is really anti-CGI and I don't know how the Japanese responded to these series. Some CGI shows, like Beastars seem to be the rare hits using CGI, but most seem to be heavily disliked.

I think it's probably because Western studios have a more natural inclination to resort to CGI thanks to the likes of Pixar, Dreamworks, etc creating the demand and thus the amount of skilled CGI artists is naturally higher. And I would never suggest that anime fans hate CGI overall, but I think the reason most Western anime fans watch anime is because the style offers something different than what you get in your average Pixar movie. And when you see Western tendencies being shoehorned into anime it's naturally off-putting to fans who want anime.

The best case scenario would really be for Western original productions to be able to make more legit serious/action shows with their own sense of style, instead of having to use anime studios or an obvious anime style as a crutch because they think Western viewers will only accept action/serious animation if it's anime. Certainly they can (and should) take influence, but something like Arcane is exciting to me because it proves you can do something that's not an explicit anime style and have Western viewers accept it and get excited about it.

The lesson being: if an American studio/network/streamer wants to make a CGI action show - make a CGI action show. Don't bother with Production IG designs or a Studio Trigger produced intro or whatever just to trick us into thinking we're watching real anime. Also don't make your characters look like dead-eyed robots.

There's also Lupin III: The First, which convinced me CGI anime could work with the right team.

Lupin is a special case because, by it's nature as an episodic/anthology type series which has spanned decades and various studios/animators/writers, you can easily look at a CGI Lupin as just another version, one of many. It's a bit different when you take something that's known for one style and then try to force it into a style nobody wants (see the new Dragonball movie). Though with FLCL, granted it's experimental to begin with and obviously we see wildly varying styles in certain scenes for certain effect. But man that 2 seconds of CGI Haruko did NOT look good, but who knows what the final product will actually be. Still, you're starting from a place of animosity or at least lowered expectations among fans as a results of Progressive and Alternative, and then you throw that on top of it, not a good start.

Still wish Demarco can explain if the Crunchyroll/Funimation merger has made things better or worse for Toonami.

Be patient, he probably doesn't know himself at this moment. Things are changing fast, and he's always been pretty forthcoming for a TV exec (arguably too much at times).

Dang! Whole Cake Island already? Didn't they just have the last batch of episodes a few weeks ago?
They're just steamrolling ahead, aren't they?

Well they kinda have to, I mean did you see how long the dang Wano arc is? It makes Dressrosa look like Arlong Park! It already as 124 episodes. I did some math and, based on the rate they currently adapt One Piece episodes (12 pages per episode), it's gonna have another 70 at least before it's done. And even after that it's STILL nowhere close to being over probably. Like, they still have to, you know, find the One Piece (or not, seems like an afterthought really).
 

veemonjosh

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Well they kinda have to, I mean did you see how long the dang Wano arc is? It makes Dressrosa look like Arlong Park! It already as 124 episodes. I did some math and, based on the rate they currently adapt One Piece episodes (12 pages per episode), it's gonna have another 70 at least before it's done.
Which amusingly means that there very well may come a point in the next year or two where the dub will finally be on the same arc as Japan, if only because of how gargantuan an arc Wano has become.
 

PicardMan

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And when you see Western tendencies being shoehorned into anime it's naturally off-putting to fans who want anime.

I think that's why there's such a big backlash against Western co-productions in general. Professional anime review sites like Anime News Network and THEM Anime Reviews have made their disdain for Western co-productions very obvious. Even series that the overall anime fandom responded well to, such as Tower of God, gets nasty reviews reviews from professional review outlets. There does seem to be two types of co-productions, the kind where the Western company has a great deal of, if not the majority of creative control, such as Blade Runner Black Lotus, and the kind where the Western company throws money at the studio to let them do whatever they want, such as Fena: Pirate Princess. I would think the latter type of co-production would do better than the former, but these types of co-productions seem to also result in poorly received stuff. I'm guessing that Housing Complex C will probably be the latter type of co-production. As we've seen with Fena, being hands off doesn't necessarily guarantee the final product will be good. If production I. G.'s Toonami Originals have underwhelmed, I can't imagine the no name studio behind Housing Complex C can do any better. I don't really have much confidence in these upcoming Toonami originals made by no name studios. It's possible for good Western co-produced originals to exist, but so far the ho hum FLCL sequels are the best nu Toonami has been involved with.
 

PicardMan

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Honestly, they don't represent the majority of anime reviewers at all.

It seems like video games have lots of different professional review sites, while anime is stuck with a small handful. Otaku USA is basically a shill publication, so it's hard for me to take their recommendations seriously. Word of mouth from cons seems like an easier way to get recommendations of what's worth your time. I think professional reviews can be a valuable tool for those with limited time in their lives to decide if something is worth it for them or not, but it feels like the professional review sources anime fans have are frustratingly flawed.
 

AdrenalineRush1996

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It seems like video games have lots of different professional review sites, while anime is stuck with a small handful. Otaku USA is basically a shill publication, so it's hard for me to take their recommendations seriously.
Like I said, they don't represent a majority of anime reviewers.
 

WickedChild

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I think that's why there's such a big backlash against Western co-productions in general. Professional anime review sites like Anime News Network and THEM Anime Reviews have made their disdain for Western co-productions very obvious. Even series that the overall anime fandom responded well to, such as Tower of God, gets nasty reviews reviews from professional review outlets. There does seem to be two types of co-productions, the kind where the Western company has a great deal of, if not the majority of creative control, such as Blade Runner Black Lotus, and the kind where the Western company throws money at the studio to let them do whatever they want, such as Fena: Pirate Princess. I would think the latter type of co-production would do better than the former, but these types of co-productions seem to also result in poorly received stuff. I'm guessing that Housing Complex C will probably be the latter type of co-production. As we've seen with Fena, being hands off doesn't necessarily guarantee the final product will be good. If production I. G.'s Toonami Originals have underwhelmed, I can't imagine the no name studio behind Housing Complex C can do any better. I don't really have much confidence in these upcoming Toonami originals made by no name studios. It's possible for good Western co-produced originals to exist, but so far the ho hum FLCL sequels are the best nu Toonami has been involved with.

Whatever problems Fena had didn't seem to be a result of Westerner meddling. Really, it's not different than the problems a lot of one-cour series have. It just seemed like they didn't have a good way to tell the story they wanted to tell in 12 short episodes. What they created with Fena should have been a sprawling epic, and the first half or so was really set up for that. Though, I guess in a roundabout way that is the Westerners' fault - if they'd budgeted for 24-26 or better yet 48-52 episodes you really could of had something there, but we know that was never gonna happen, not without serious compromise to the visual quality, and I'm guessing Demarco, if it was his choice, would have opted for the visual quality.

Black Lotus, on the other hand, seems to be drowning in notes and pointers from Western hacks trying to duct-tape together something that they probably think looks and feels like a super-badass cool anime. They probably thought, "Anime fans like hot girls with swords, right? But she's gotta be grim and mysterious too! Also there's like a detective chick. Oh and there's gotta be a bunch of neon cause Blade Runnner lol". And that was about the extent of the thought that went into the writing process. It's just so hard for me to believe actual Japanese creators could have made something so cringeworthy and ham-fisted in it tropyness.

Point being, I'd still take Fena with its more common, sensible problems a million times over Westerners forcing their fanfiction-level treatment through an anime lens.
 
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Daikun

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Well they kinda have to, I mean did you see how long the dang Wano arc is?

It would still take them a few years to reach that point from where they are, and they'll have to eventually drop from double to single premieres at some point, so we won't be reaching Wano anytime soon, if ever.

Heck, I wouldn't surprised if Toonami drops OP after Dressrosa, considering how dang long it is. They dropped the show after the simple time span of Water 7-Thriller Bark, and it took them 4 years to reach that point, so it's not that farfetched to see Toonami drop the show again. They've done it twice already.
 

Yojimbo

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It would still take them a few years to reach that point from where they are, and they'll have to eventually drop from double to single premieres at some point, so we won't be reaching Wano anytime soon, if ever.

Heck, I wouldn't surprised if Toonami drops OP after Dressrosa, considering how dang long it is. They dropped the show after the simple time span of Water 7-Thriller Bark, and it took them 4 years to reach that point, so it's not that farfetched to see Toonami drop the show again. They've done it twice already.
I've been thinking about this and from what I gathered Naruto is nearing the final 100 episodes of the series. What are the chances Toonami will simply restart with episode 1 or Naruto or will they take it off the block and One Piece will take its slot in 2023-ish?
 

PicardMan

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Whatever problems Fena had didn't seem to be a result of Westerner meddling. Really, it's not different than the problems a lot of one-cour series have. It just seemed like they didn't have a good way to tell the story they wanted to tell in 12 short episodes. What they created with Fena should have been a sprawling epic, and the first half or so was really set up for that. Though, I guess in a roundabout way that is the Westerners' fault - if they'd budgeted for 24-26 or better yet 48-52 episodes you really could of had something there, but we know that was never gonna happen, not without serious compromise to the visual quality, and I'm guessing Demarco, if it was his choice, would have opted for the visual quality.

Rushing stories to fit one cour is a common anime problem, but it's really not specific to Western co-productions. Sure, Dimension W was a crappy rushed anime with backing from Funimation, but Promised Neverland season 2 had that same problem with rushed pacing with no Western funding involved. I know that a lot of these Western co-productions suck, but correlation does not necessarily mean causation. Odd Taxi is really well liked, although I think not using the Crunchyroll Original label despite being a co-production helped it get acceptance. Fena and Shenmue had the benefit of experienced studios like Production I. G. and Telecom Animation Film working on them, but Housing Complex C doesn't get such luck. I think a horror story is possible to do in one cour if executed correctly, so I hope the story issues with Fena aren't repeated, but the problem of this being done by an unknown studio is scary. That's one problem that Western co-productions have is using these unknown studios and turning out garbage like Ex Arm. So far, none of these Toonami originals have reached Ex Arm infamy yet and I do hope it stays that way.
 

Nobodyman

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Yes, interesting choice. May take some getting used to. But hey, we've certainly been through worse.
 

Gold Guy

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Mirroring everyone else, it's such a departure from past looks that I need to get used to it. At the very least, you can't say that they're playing it safe with the logo.
 

Space Cadet

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Whatever problems Fena had didn't seem to be a result of Westerner meddling. Really, it's not different than the problems a lot of one-cour series have. It just seemed like they didn't have a good way to tell the story they wanted to tell in 12 short episodes. What they created with Fena should have been a sprawling epic, and the first half or so was really set up for that. Though, I guess in a roundabout way that is the Westerners' fault - if they'd budgeted for 24-26 or better yet 48-52 episodes you really could of had something there, but we know that was never gonna happen, not without serious compromise to the visual quality, and I'm guessing Demarco, if it was his choice, would have opted for the visual quality.


DeMarco has said that the network was pleased with Fena and wanted to order another season but the original creator always intended for the story to be told in one season and the ending was what the creator wanted.
Black Lotus, on the other hand, seems to be drowning in notes and pointers from Western hacks trying to duct-tape together something that they probably think looks and feels like a super-badass cool anime. They probably thought, "Anime fans like hot girls with swords, right? But she's gotta be grim and mysterious too! Also there's like a detective chick. Oh and there's gotta be a bunch of neon cause Blade Runnner lol". And that was about the extent of the thought that went into the writing process. It's just so hard for me to believe actual Japanese creators could have made something so cringeworthy and ham-fisted in it tropyness.

We don't know what the process was like with Black Lotus yet but it seems in general that AS tends to be creator-friendly, so who knows. Also, Japanese creators can create cringeworthy shows just like their western counterparts.
 

PicardMan

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We don't know what the process was like with Black Lotus yet but it seems in general that AS tends to be creator-friendly, so who knows. Also, Japanese creators can create cringeworthy shows just like their western counterparts.

According to the encyclopedia entry from Anime News Network, only one episode was written by a Japanese person and the rest were scripted by Americans. A lot of people wouldn't even classify it as an anime as it is an American scripted cartoon aimed at an American audience. Being an anime inspired American cartoon doesn't automatically make it suck (Avatar: The Last Airbender is big), but Black Lotus was a really divisive Toonami original.
 

SpaceCowboy

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According to the encyclopedia entry from Anime News Network, only one episode was written by a Japanese person and the rest were scripted by Americans. A lot of people wouldn't even classify it as an anime as it is an American scripted cartoon aimed at an American audience. Being an anime inspired American cartoon doesn't automatically make it suck (Avatar: The Last Airbender is big), but Black Lotus was a really divisive Toonami original.
That wouldn't necessarily bar it from being classified as anime. The Little Nemo: Adventures in Slumberland movie is now considered an anime by many people and its original screenplay was written by Chris Columbus (director of Home Alone).
 
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CNFan1995

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Toonami just posted this week's lineup on Facebook and the question is what show it's gonna be on 2:00 AM?

 

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Another family emergency update (long story short):

After charging in and out of the hospital a few more times, my mother had to do a colonoscopy earlier this month and they detected colon cancer. So yesterday, she underwent colon surgery and is now 100% cancer-free.

Now she's in the ICU due to very low blood pressure, still in the process of recovery.
"Crabgrass" is coming back and also in newspapers from Monday, it's a great comic strip if you've not checked it out, you should. “Crabgrass” Will Officially Launch in Newspapers on Monday | GoComics.com
Why does society keep devolving for the last century or so, why is America 50 years behind where it should’ve been? And anybody who tries to makes things better will be swept under the rug or get screwed over by cancer or disease.

I hate to get political here especially but for what happened today I can’t help
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