Unconventional or unpopular opinions you have (re: animation)

creator

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Yeah, Astro Boy has not been popular in the States outside of the original 1960's run. The 1980's series barely ran here, but the 2000's series attempted to air four or five times without much success. We even had the 3D animated film, but it still couldn't popularize Astro Boy.
 

Rhaynebow

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Ooh! I got another one!

I’ve…never liked the first opening to Pokémon and frankly find it to be one of the weaker openings. I never liked that all of my friends would belt out the first theme song and dump on the rest and I never liked that the Macy’s Parade would play that song, years after that season had ended.

Like sure, it’s good for NOSTALGIA, but Born to be a Winner gets me hyped up and Stand Up has actually made me tear up. The first theme song just makes me cringe at this point.


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pacman000

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Isn't Born to Be a Winner just a rerecording/remix of Pokémon Theme? Or was that only in Pokémon 4Ever?

Just went to YouTube to check, & the TV theme seems to be the same as the one used in 4Ever.

I like the classic rock feel of the first theme better than the hip hop theme of later seasons; I suppose it just depends on what type of music you like. I do like Born to Be a Winner tho, probably because it's closer to the Pokémon Theme than other, later, theme songs.
 

AdrenalineRush1996

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In terms of Spider-Man theme tunes, I prefer the theme tune from the Fox Kids animated series over the one from the Sixties animated series.
 

Sam the Cartoonist

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Same. Just as much as I hate Valiskibum, (Little Miss) Enter, and PhantomStrider (as critics of Western animation, of course! Hating them as people is going a bit too far, because at least they're not criminals like Cosmodore is and is deserving of such hatred!) - their opinions and vids expressing them ALL ROYALLY SUCK(ED) to me. Always have, always will.
Cosmodore is simply more hateworthy only because of being exposed for his criminal behavior, however. Let's never forget that.
Out of curiosity, what exactly do you dislike about PhantomStrider? I always liked how he calm and respectfully articulated his opinions on media. Even though Western animation is often the main focus of his videos, he has also branched to other niches such as toys, commercials, creepypastas, etc.
Doesn't help that the fans for these 3 are worse, simply for parroting their stuff as if it is FACT, rather than forming their own opinions - I will especially never forgive these fools for giving actually good and criminally mistreated Nicktoons like Welcome to the Wayne AND Harvey Beaks such poor reviews, especially when they barely watched either show like I ACTUALLY PUT IN THE EFFORT TO DO, MYSELF, thank you very much!
I don't know what the former two think of it, but I do recall Strider saying Harvey Beaks was his 4th favorite Nick show.
 

Pooky

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I kind of like PhantomStrider's videos and he seems like a really nice guy, but he does seem to pander to the algorithm a bit; hasn't he made like 3 or 4 "Worst Peppa Pig episodes" videos? I would respect that a little more if he used them to leverage less popular stuff he's passionate about, like the aforementioned Astro Boy video idea, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
 

Silverstar

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I enjoy the first season opening theme to the Ewoks animated series to the later All-New Ewoks theme song. I know the latter sounds more authentic, like the type of tune the Ewoks would actually make, but the first theme song just sounds better is more melodious to me.

I didn't think the 4Kids' iViva Pinata! animated series was that bad; they seemed to taking a very Looney Tunes-esque approach to it, which I didn't mind, but I wish it had aligned more with the games it was based on, like featuring the human characters as well as the pinatas.
 

The Overlord

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I kind of like PhantomStrider's videos and he seems like a really nice guy, but he does seem to pander to the algorithm a bit; hasn't he made like 3 or 4 "Worst Peppa Pig episodes" videos? I would respect that a little more if he used them to leverage less popular stuff he's passionate about, like the aforementioned Astro Boy video idea, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

PhantomStrider is okay, I just find his stuff reputative, like Watch Mojo. Valiskibum, is okay too, but he doesn't go into the detail that other Youtubers go into. Really anyone is better than grifters like Clownfish TV.
 

Silverstar

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I know I've mentioned this before, but I really hate animation and kids' entertainment studios' (most notably Disney's) penchant for dead mothers in their shows and movies. It's such a cheap and lazy way to evoke sympathy for the protagonist and an easy out when the writers don't feel like creating another character. I'd be indifferent to this trope if I only saw it employed once in a while, but it's been overdone to the point of cliche now; I hate this trope with the fury of 1000 suns.

The only thing I like less is when the main family has no mom but an additional character (a grandmother, aunt or girlfriend for the dad) who essentially takes the maternal role in the household. That's just plain unnecessary to me; if you're going to do that, then why not just make Auntie/Grammy/Miss Girlfriend the mom? That just comes off to me like the producers want to have their cake and eat it too; they can have a mother figure and still satisfy their Dead Mom Angst fetish. The whole thing is at the top of the list of Lazy Writing 101, and I lose respect for any producer/studio who employs this trope.
 

pacman000

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Some of Disney's films inherit it from the tales they're based on.
 

Silverstar

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Some of Disney's films inherit it from the tales they're based on.
I understand that, the stuff based on hundred-year-old fairy tales and fable have an excuse, but Disney (and other studios too, for that matter) tend to pull out this tired trope in a lot of their modern day original ideas as well, to the point where it almost comes off like a kink.

There's absolutely no reason for Disney's Chicken Little, the kids from 2002's The Scream Team, the main kid from Princess Protection Program or Barney from Ron's Gone Wrong to not have mothers, the latter of which having a grandmother essentially taking on the maternal role.

Studios tend to rely on this trope solely because a) they don't feel like writing another character or b) they're trying to elevate the father to Super Dad status: "He's so cool he don't need a woman to be a good dad!" That's what I hate.

My issue is that "a woman is dead to facilitate a man or kid protagonist's character arc" is a lazy, stale storytelling device that's overused to the point of cliche. Family shows and movies are rife with kid characters or families with dead moms who only exist to give them something to be sad about in order to evoke sympathy or worse yet, serve no purpose at all beyond a throwaway line or exchange. Having a female character exist only for their death to matter is to reduce her to a plot point instead of being a person. The fact that we see this happening in media constantly and without a second thought is the real issue.
 
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Sam the Cartoonist

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Adding to Silverstar's comment, there are some overused dad tropes as well:
  • Deadbeat and/or dim-witted dad -- This is the most notorious one seen a lot of animated sitcoms including the likes of The Simpsons and Family Guy.
  • Overprotective father -- It gets pretty tiring seeing father (and by extension sibling) figures who are so protective towards a female character to the point of being aggressive and violent towards any other male who dares do as much as talk or go out with her.
 

Classic Speedy

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I know I've mentioned this before, but I really hate animation and kids' entertainment studios' (most notably Disney's) penchant for dead mothers in their shows and movies. It's such a cheap and lazy way to evoke sympathy for the protagonist and an easy out when the writers don't feel like creating another character. I'd be indifferent to this trope if I only saw it employed once in a while, but it's been overdone to the point of cliche now; I hate this trope with the fury of 1000 suns.
I agree that's an overused trope, but does anybody really like it for it to be considered an unpopular opinion for disliking? At best, audiences passively accept that trope because, as you said, it's an easy way to generate sympathy for the main character, but you'd be hard-pressed to find anybody that flat out enjoys it.

Anyway, just another reason why The Mitchells vs. The Machines was refreshing: No dead parents.
 

JMTV Studios

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I know I've mentioned this before, but I really hate animation and kids' entertainment studios' (most notably Disney's) penchant for dead mothers in their shows and movies. It's such a cheap and lazy way to evoke sympathy for the protagonist and an easy out when the writers don't feel like creating another character. I'd be indifferent to this trope if I only saw it employed once in a while, but it's been overdone to the point of cliche now; I hate this trope with the fury of 1000 suns.
Oh yeah, I do agree with you. I hate that too. It's gross and unnecessary.
 

Rhaynebow

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I agree that's an overused trope, but does anybody really like it for it to be considered an unpopular opinion for disliking? At best, audiences passively accept that trope because, as you said, it's an easy way to generate sympathy for the main character, but you'd be hard-pressed to find anybody that flat out enjoys it.

Anyway, just another reason why The Mitchells vs. The Machines was refreshing: No dead parents.

I wouldn’t say that it’s the trope that people specifically like, but a lot of stories tend to get extra praise by having the mom be dead. The term Oscar Bait comes to mind.

Best example I can give is probably Mallow from the Sun and Moon anime. I honestly don’t think anyone really cared about her until they revealed her Mom was dead in a super serious tearjerker episode.


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matbezlima

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I know I've mentioned this before, but I really hate animation and kids' entertainment studios' (most notably Disney's) penchant for dead mothers in their shows and movies. It's such a cheap and lazy way to evoke sympathy for the protagonist and an easy out when the writers don't feel like creating another character. I'd be indifferent to this trope if I only saw it employed once in a while, but it's been overdone to the point of cliche now; I hate this trope with the fury of 1000 suns.

The only thing I like less is when the main family has no mom but an additional character (a grandmother, aunt or girlfriend for the dad) who essentially takes the maternal role in the household. That's just plain unnecessary to me; if you're going to do that, then why not just make Auntie/Grammy/Miss Girlfriend the mom? That just comes off to me like the producers want to have their cake and eat it too; they can have a mother figure and still satisfy their Dead Mom Angst fetish. The whole thing is at the top of the list of Lazy Writing 101, and I lose respect for any producer/studio who employs this trope.
Tropes are tools. If I get bothered or not by a dead mom only depends on how the show and/or film use it. I certainly don't have any problem with it in works such as Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs and Cinderella. Same thing for Katara's mom being dead in ATLA. I'll make a more general point about how many things we now see as absolute Disney tropes are far more recent phenomenons actually, and a flanderization of their original use. Look at the Disney films made in Walt's lifetime, dead moms weren't really a thing in most of them, and continued not being so for many years after his death.

Like Disney's princesses. It's actually a Renaissance phenomenon. For all the (unfair) mocking done about Disney's oldest princesses, the truth is that there were only three princess movies made in not only Walt's lifetime, but even many years after his death. In fact, it would even be wrong to call Snow White, Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty princess movies in the modern sense (and the latter two movies were only made because Disney wanted a safe success). They had protagonists who were princesses and/or became princesses, but the "princess" aspect was never a major selling point for those movies, and it was never something Walt cared much for. For example, Walt had suffered a lot of pressure to make Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs a romance movie, but he strongly declined and said that he couldn't care less about romance. The film's title (Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs) is not a coincidence, it's Walt making his point clear that the film's story is only really about Snow White and the dwarfs together, everything else, like the prince, is at best just a plot device, not a character. Princesses weren't a major part of Disney's brand, far from such. That's something from way, way after Walt Disney died, the Renaissance.

To sum up things, the Renaissance's endless mocking of classic Disney tropes, and also something you see in the current Revival films, is actually mocking of an extremely flanderized idea of Classic Disney, rather than what Classic Disney actually was, all while hypocritically adopting flanderized versions of those tropes. The big Broadway power ballad of the protagonist singing what he wants? That's far more a Renaissance thing than Classic Disney.

You'll see how the use of songs in Walt-era Disney always moved character and/or plot forward, and there weren't big Broadway musical set pieces. In fact, the use of music in Classic Disney is strongly balletic in nature, a synergy of cinematic visual choices and animation with music so tied together that it enhances the mood and creates an atmosphere in which the music is far more than background noise. Best example of this is Bambi. I recommend these videos.



And can you imagine a modern Disney princess film in which the princess sings softly rather than belting the song?


To be clear, I hope that no one takes these comments as me dissing on the Renaissance, I still enjoy it a lot!
 

ShadowBlinky

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  • Overprotective father -- It gets pretty tiring seeing father (and by extension sibling) figures who are so protective towards a female character to the point of being aggressive and violent towards any other male who dares do as much as talk or go out with her.
And women can get labeled "nothing but trouble" for that. :shrug:
 

matbezlima

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Tropes are tools. If I get bothered or not by a dead mom only depends on how the show and/or film use it. I certainly don't have any problem with it in works such as Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs and Cinderella. Same thing for Katara's mom being dead in ATLA. I'll make a more general point about how many things we now see as absolute Disney tropes are far more recent phenomenons actually, and a flanderization of their original use. Look at the Disney films made in Walt's lifetime, dead moms weren't really a thing in most of them, and continued not being so for many years after his death.

Like Disney's princesses. It's actually a Renaissance phenomenon. For all the (unfair) mocking done about Disney's oldest princesses, the truth is that there were only three princess movies made in not only Walt's lifetime, but even many years after his death. In fact, it would even be wrong to call Snow White, Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty princess movies in the modern sense (and the latter two movies were only made because Disney wanted a safe success). They had protagonists who were princesses and/or became princesses, but the "princess" aspect was never a major selling point for those movies, and it was never something Walt cared much for. For example, Walt had suffered a lot of pressure to make Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs a romance movie, but he strongly declined and said that he couldn't care less about romance. The film's title (Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs) is not a coincidence, it's Walt making his point clear that the film's story is only really about Snow White and the dwarfs together, everything else, like the prince, is at best just a plot device, not a character. Princesses weren't a major part of Disney's brand, far from such. That's something from way, way after Walt Disney died, the Renaissance.

To sum up things, the Renaissance's endless mocking of classic Disney tropes, and also something you see in the current Revival films, is actually mocking of an extremely flanderized idea of Classic Disney, rather than what Classic Disney actually was, all while hypocritically adopting flanderized versions of those tropes. The big Broadway power ballad of the protagonist singing what he wants? That's far more a Renaissance thing than Classic Disney.

You'll see how the use of songs in Walt-era Disney always moved character and/or plot forward, and there weren't big Broadway musical set pieces. In fact, the use of music in Classic Disney is strongly balletic in nature, a synergy of cinematic visual choices and animation with music so tied together that it enhances the mood and creates an atmosphere in which the music is far more than background noise. Best example of this is Bambi. I recommend these videos.



And can you imagine a modern Disney princess film in which the princess sings softly rather than belting the song?


To be clear, I hope that no one takes these comments as me dissing on the Renaissance, I still enjoy it a lot!
Amother thing I would like to add about the flanderized perception of some tropes, about all I said in the post I'm quoting. Take, for example, the "sing and your problems are over". That's not much of an element in the older Disney films. There aren't many "I want" songs, but even they are never framed as a magic solution to all problems, far from such. The message is about cheering yourself up, to no give up to fear, darkness and sadness, even when the situation is dire and you can't do anything to improve it. That is the core message of characters like Snow White and Cinderella. Also, the animals love the classic Disney princesses not because they are princess, but because of their kindness of heart. It's the old saying that you'll always have someone to help you if you are kind to everyone in your life. Take a look at these scenes, which happen right after the other:



The relentless mockery and flanderized, distorted way that Classic Disney is often presented in popular consciousness, specially since Dreamworks' Shrek (though I love this film), is tiring. To the Revival Disney films, you aren't a smarter movie than the older Disney films just because you are mocking the supposed tropes they had. Classic Disney films didn't brag about their cleverness, and wanted plot and dialogue as minimal as possible, there were bigger artistic concerns, like the visuals, animation, music and so on. Artistic triumphs. Again, I recommend the videos I shared in my original post, which I'm replying to.

And specifically about Snow White, it's a film whose many qualities we might take too much for granted nowadays, that's what happens with such impossibly huge cultural touchstones. It's hard to imagine a world without this film, like Shakespeare's plays.
 
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