"Stargirl" Season Three Talkback (Spoilers)

[Road to Gotham]

Thunderbolt mentions COLUMBO.
This mystery in a way unfurls like an episode of Columbo only on that series the killer is reveal at the beginning.
I am waiting/hoping someone utters Columbo's most line at some point.

 

[Yojimbo]

September 14, 2022
"Frenemies - Chapter Three: The Blackmail" - Episode 29
Courtney and the JSA receive an anonymous tip that could help in their murder investigation. Meanwhile, after being told to find balance, Sylvester looks into potential jobs in Blue Valley, while also trying to figure out who he is without his Starman identity.

 

[Fone Bone]

Stargirl "Frenemies: Chapter Three: The Blackmail"

First of all, that was a great episode. Here is where my thoughts currently stand:

Sylvester is not dead. Wrong time for it. I also no longer believe he's the killer. His unfiltered talk with the staff about the crime scene says he's innocent, or at least lying to the staff about it. It's likelier he's innocent. The culprit is probably the planty guy at the end who it looks like might have killed him.

And let me be honest,. I hope I'm wrong. I hope it is Sylvester. Last week I complained about the show not setting up ANY false alibies for Sylvester to falsely rule him out from the audience as a suspect, but the show did MUCH better than that this week. It made me care enough about the character to wish it ISN'T him. Which is a trick, because when Cindy declares the guy an ass, she's not actually wrong. He's just an attempted murderer playing at hero and utterly disrespectful of Pat in the process. But listening to Pat's impassioned speech to the guy, I WANT him to be innocent, and eventually change for Courtney's sake. Now, if it IS him, I'll be properly pained instead of just saying "Aha! I knew it!" But that's only if it him. And I think it's the mystery plant creature, which is the wrong solution for ANY given mystery (outside of Scooby Doo). But while Sylvester is the RIGHT culprit for the show to make the killer, he's also somebody I give a crap about. And I DO hate him. But I care about him too. Neat trick.

I thought the Crocks were great in this episode, especially Paula's struggles with Barb in her not fitting in. And frankly while it's clear part of the reason Cindy is casting a wide net for potential villain suspects is because she has the Gambler's computer, and she knows how hot it is, I also believe her when she said the reason she went to Sylvester was because she wanted to impress him. And yeah, Sylvester is pretty much a jerk there for rejecting her instead.

The one part of the episode I don't like is the Cameron stuff. It is unlike every other element this season. Because unlike every other element, I don't see how it ends any other way but badly. In my fondest heart I hope the frenemies and Sylvester and the town can learn to live with each other as one big happy family. Cameron is the one nasty loose end totally outside of that. Were I Courtney, I'd be avoiding him on general principle. Her cozying up to him while knowing her brother killed his father is just going to make things a thousand times worse in the long run.

I loved the episode though. ****1/2.

 

[Frontier]

I've seen speculation that the killers are actually Critter and Ajak/Wind-Walker of Helix.

 

[Yojimbo]

I've seen speculation that the killers are actually Critter and Ajak/Wind-Walker of Helix.

Hmm, so it's not one person and the ISA are all red herrings - and it's the new villain group behind it for some reason. Idk... I've seen a theory it is Icicle Sr. reforming himself or being an elemental being. EDIT: Eh, I suppose it could work with Helix testing Blue Valley in a twisted Truman Show kind of way. But why kill Gambler.

 

[Frontier]

Hmm, so it's not one person and the ISA are all red herrings - and it's the new villain group behind it for some reason. Idk... I've seen a theory it is Icicle Sr. reforming himself or being an elemental being. EDIT: Eh, I suppose it could work with Helix testing Blue Valley in a twisted Truman Show kind of way. But why kill Gambler.

I'm guessing Helix has Becky/Hazard like they have Todd/Obsidian.

Or maybe Todd is the killer .

 

[hobbyfan]

I doubt it's Obsidian.

 

[Yojimbo]

I doubt it's Obsidian.

You keep shooting down everyone's theories. Would be nice if you share what yours is.

 

[Yojimbo]

September 21, 2022
"Frenemies - Chapter Four: The Evidence" - Episode 30
After one of Sylvester's plans results in an unexpected outcome, Pat calls upon an old friend for help. Meanwhile, Beth uncovers a new suspect in their murder investigation, and Courtney reaches out to Cameron.

 

[Fone Bone]

Stargirl "Frenemies: Chapter Four: The Evidence"

If it's not Sylvester, Cindy turning into the Dragon King is a good alternative culprit. Messy. Good.

Cameron's stuff is messy in a way I DON'T like. Whatever Courtney thinks she's doing, her having to be so dishonest with him about everything is going to backfire. Especially since his grandparents know her secret. If they didn't, I wouldn't be as concerned.

This episode is a solid reminder that Yolando's mom absolutely sucks. Every time I find Beth's parents too insufferable I look at what poor Yolanda is stuck with and find their smothering refreshing in comparison. Do you know what pisses me off the most about Yolanda's parents? There has been no growth there. In three seasons her parents are exactly as horrible to Yolanda as they were when we first met them in season one. In a season subtitled "Frenemies", and one where Sylvester and Crusher are tossing beers back and forth and watching The Outlaw Josey Wales together, her mother being in the same nasty rut as always grates especially for that reason.

I liked it, although I do have a few concerns about the future. Cindy being the killer sounds all right. But they could screw it up. And Cameron's stuff is iffy too. ***1/2.

 

[Frontier]

That snowglobe really looked a heck of a lot like Courtney. Like, I think I have literally seen her wear that exact outfit at some point.

I feel like I should feel bad that Yolanda's dad lost his job, but her family (other than the brother) is so awful I just can't muster up any sympathy. Like, Yolanda literally can't be on the phone and is obviously talking about the family's shame...that totally checks out. I guess the one thing I'm worried about is, if they're talking to a realtor, they might move out of Blue Valley and take Yolanda with them.

It's nice to have a doctor in the know in Beth's mom...even if she's not used to fudging medical reports so people don't pay too much attention to Superhero stuff!

OG!Mid-Nite! It was nice to see Dr. McNider reunite with Sylvester and get his doctoring on, and that he's happy where he is now. He's even starting a new clinic!

Does Sylvester still want to be Starman? Is he happy? Although whether he's ready to hang up the tights or not, Pat remaking his old suit was a pretty great gesture of support for him to give this one last go.

I'm glad Barbara's proposal got through and now her old nemesis is cartoonishly in support of her, but I wonder if she would've approved of Paula's methods for making that happen?

I see Tigress is decent at taxidermy. Did she hunt that thing down herself or...?

Kind of rare to see Courtney in a dress, come to think of it.

I love how Jakeem is talked into going along with Mike's plan because he wants to ride in the robot. Although they probably should've been more specific in which keys they wished for.
Nothing bonds three guys together like throwing back a couple of beers and watching Clint Eastwood.

So how are they going to explain away all the ice in the art room? I mean, maybe it'll melt but that would still be a lot of water.

I'm genuinely surprised the grandparents didn't tell Cameron everything about Stargirl and the JSA at this point. It seems like they're trying to build him up to it, but I guess that means they're still stringing along that plot.

It took three seasons but Courtney and Cameron finally have their first kiss! And amidst the snow no less!
Of course, it probably won't end well because Courtney is still keeping being Stargirl and a whole bunch of other stuff from him, but take what happiness and love you can get.


So it wasn't Dragon King...it was Cindy. It seems like she's turning dragon like her dad did. And if the JSA is hunting through the tunnels...well, I think Cindy's secrets are going to catch up with her. Of course they're also on a wild goose chase.

 

[Yojimbo]

They're definitely taking their time with Cameron on this show. It's just a roller coaster between her and Courtney. And end in a dumpster fire when he finds out everything. I kinda am getting impatient with that sub-plot, just do it already but of course they're just gonna milk it until the season finale.

Idk, seems like Dragon King left a failsafe in her to resurrect himself in case of death and Cindy's been trying to figure out a way to stop him from overwriting himself in her body - making serums, stealing Gambler's laptop - but nothing's working.

Nice seeing Charles again. And a quick Ted Knight reference.

 

[hobbyfan]

Poor Cindy. I don't think she really wanted to be a dragon. Her story will not end well.

 

[Road to Gotham]

I got a different vibe while watching the scene between Sylvester and McNider.
McNider seem hesitant to mention to talk about his reunion with his wife and son.
Maybe it's going a bit rocky between the 3. Which would make sense since McNider been gone
10 years or so. It would be a big adjustment for the son to have his real father back in his life.
And what does his wife feels. After such a long time she could be dating other men.
McNider seem more excited to talk his health clinic.
Really liked seeing the Original Dr. Mid-Nite once again.

Also at some point can we have a flashback to Ted Knight giving Sylvester the staff and explaining how it works.
Or at least Sylvester telling Courtney about the origin of the staff.

 

[Otaku-sempai]

I've been wonder if the Cosmic Rod is still around (or maybe I'm thinking of the Gravity Rod?). Maybe Sylvester can make use of that.

EDIT (09/30): Perhaps Sylvester can retrieve and improve on his old Cosmic Converter Belt.

 

[Yojimbo]

October 5, 2022
"Frenemies - Chapter Five: The Thief" - Episode 31
As Courtney continues to secretly help Cameron, the team notices she’s pulling away from her role as the JSA leader. Mike and Jakeem approach Cindy with a proposition. Finally, Yolanda’s decision to follow her intuition leads her to make a shocking discovery.

 

[Fone Bone]

Stargirl "Frenemies: Chapter Five: The Thief"

What is this show doing? What is wrong with it?

What's wrong with it is it's television, and television is terrible. That's all this show's (and most show's) problems boil down to.

We know Court and Cameron are going to end badly. Even the characters seem to know it. So why do it? Why put Courtney in that specific painful scenario with nothing but a bad outcome possible? Is this Geoff Johns' way of keeping his sister's memory chaste? Because man, this is NOT working. It won't work. And every time a TV show does something like this I complain my head off, and fans of that show inevitably tell me to slow my roll and trust the producers. And I'm always right anyways, while the fans seem dumbfounded after the plot has fully shaken out that that the show has actually been destroyed by it. I'll tell you the silver lining about that. The show has been shaky enough for the past two and a half seasons that for once, I don't think anyone reading my review will protest my dislike of that. Sometimes when I push up against bad television, I seem to be knocking down what many people consider icons. I don't think I really have to worry about offending anyone who reads this review. The viewers and fans of this show are very well aware of its virtues AND faults. I'm not torching any sacred cows for once.

And why was Rick SO rude to Cameron at the table? I understand why he doesn't like or trust him. But Cameron doesn't. Is Rick so dumb he doesn't realize his uncalled for rudeness is actually suspicious? And if he truly believes Cameron is a threat is that the vibe he was wants to send to this potential threat with his behavior? What is this show doing?

I don't like seeing Joel McHale lose his cool. His cool is Joel McHale's entire selling point. Maybe you could argue the show is trying to let him stretch for once, but that's not an acting muscle I believe he needed to have pulled, or one I felt rewarded for him flexing. What is this show doing?

Why was Thunderbolt in the JSA to begin with? The bit with the "nicer" bullies was truly funny, but it puts into sharp focus that he's a hindrance. Mr. Mxyzptlk was also similarly mischievous, and his intentions were similarly harmless. But Superman never asked him to join the Justice League either. Jeez.

The one thing in the episode I liked was kind of painful. I like that Beth has good parents. When she tells them what she needs from them, they actually listen to her, as hurt as they are. Compare that to the outright monsters Yolanda has to come home to every night.

But man, what is this show doing? Why does it insist on being television? **.

 

[Yojimbo]

We know Court and Cameron are going to end badly. Even the characters seem to know it. So why do it? Why put Courtney in that specific painful scenario with nothing but a bad outcome possible? Is this Geoff Johns' way of keeping his sister's memory chaste? Because man, this is NOT working. It won't work. And every time a TV show does something like this I complain my head off, and fans of that show inevitably tell me to slow my roll and trust the producers. And I'm always right anyways, while the fans seem dumbfounded after the plot has fully shaken out that that the show has actually been destroyed by it. I'll tell you the silver lining about that. The show has been shaky enough for the past two and a half seasons that for once, I don't think anyone reading my review will protest my dislike of that. Sometimes when I push up against bad television, I seem to be knocking down what many people consider icons. I don't think I really have to worry about offending anyone who reads this review. The viewers and fans of this show are very well aware of its virtues AND faults. I'm not torching any sacred cows for once.

And why was Rick SO rude to Cameron at the table? I understand why he doesn't like or trust him. But Cameron doesn't. Is Rick so dumb he doesn't realize his uncalled for rudeness is actually suspicious? And if he truly believes Cameron is a threat is that the vibe he was wants to send to this potential threat with his behavior? What is this show doing?

I don't like seeing Joel McHale lose his cool. His cool is Joel McHale's entire selling point. Maybe you could argue the show is trying to let him stretch for once, but that's not an acting muscle I believe he needed to have pulled, or one I felt rewarded for him flexing. What is this show doing?

It's definitely bad TV pacing to milk these sub-plots to the very end when the audience had long since lost their patience. I'd add Yolanda-Cindy to that list of complaints as well even though Cindy is hiding stuff from the team. I hate it because it's painting Yolanda as very one-dimensional this season, imo. Then when they try to mix in cute DC references of no consequence like with Dr. Fate and Wotan this week, it comes off a little annoying.

This almost distracted me from the fact we should be questioning why that iguana was alive and well in that not-used-in-a-long-time Dragon King bunker.

Why was Thunderbolt in the JSA to begin with? The bit with the "nicer" bullies was truly funny, but it puts into sharp focus that he's a hindrance. Mr. Mxyzptlk was also similarly mischievous, and his intentions were similarly harmless. But Superman never asked him to join the Justice League either. Jeez.

I guess they didn't want the ISA to get their hands on it in this show's canon.

 

[Fone Bone]

I guess they didn't want the ISA to get their hands on it in this show's canon.

Well, they should have. He would have messed them up big time.

 

[Frontier]

Did Cindy seem delirious in that opening scene? Like she was surprised when she saw the Gambler's body and saw her blade out and was surprised to see what was behind her. Was she in some kind of trance? Although that moment with the gun was a rookie move.

Cameron with the smooth boyfriend move of walking Courtney home. Courtney with the smooth line about using wikipedia. And their second kiss! And of course in true teenager fashion, she's not telling her parents she's got a boyfriend.

Say what you will about the Gambler's password AI, at least it makes sure you feel like a winner when you use the correct password.

I guess I can understand why the ISA portrait would be triggering for Sylvester, but it's probably a good thing he wasn't in season 1 or he would've been totally out for blood...

Oh yeah, they have the ISA file on Icicle. That would probably be useful in understanding what's going on with Cameron.

Could Zeek have a romance on the horizon with that waitress?

Now the Crocks are investigating on their own and bothering Pat and Barbara on their lunch dates...They don't do those that often, Crocks! Although the fact that doing hero work has re-invigorated their sex lives and then them proceeding to make out was priceless.

Sylvester relating to Mike because he killed Sylvesters' killer (which Mike still seems touchy about) and reminds him of Sylvester as the Star-Spangled Kid (which I think is the first time they've mentioned that this season) was a nice scene. As was Sylvester being self-aware of how he lost control and was being a bad influence on the kids, and wanting to do better.

Crimson Avenger name-drop!

So, yeah, a "nice" bully is still a bully, they're just more polite about it. And then the JSA All Stars try way out of their league in recruiting Cindy, which ends in predictable fashion. But they sure tried!

I'm not surprised Courtney focusing on her boyfriend is distracting her or distancing her from the JSA stuff, but it's also creating more tension with the team, especially when they realize it's Cameron that's keeping her busy. But Rick is way too unnecessarily aggressive against Cameron. Although the two might have similar bad tempers, Cameron just learned to shut his down after going through a Summer Camp because he had it that bad when he was younger. And his anger is probably still in there, especially when someone, like Cindy, eggs him on.

Sylvester being a genuine mentor and solid adult figure! He even called them out on how they treated Cameron and gave them decent and reasonable (at least from his perspective) advice.

I'm glad they had Sylvester show more of a reaction to Mary and her death, as well as Yolanda finally bringing up Henry, his nephew. Probably a lot of feelings there.

Well, Beth was inevitably going to have to set boundaries with her parents because they kept pestering her and wanted to get way more involved than they were qualified for...even if it broke her heart to push them away. But they still seem closer as a couple, so I guess that's a positive.

Are we finally getting the Rex addicted to Miraclo story? Because there's no way him having the Hourman powers 24/7 is going to end well.

Yolanda breaking into Cindy's room made her look more like a cat burglar than a Superhero, but I guess it's better they realize Cindy's been keeping secrets now.

Courtney and Cameron getting intimate in his family home by the fireplace...and his grandparents are none too happy about it. This isn't going to end well.

We know Court and Cameron are going to end badly. Even the characters seem to know it. So why do it? Why put Courtney in that specific painful scenario with nothing but a bad outcome possible? Is this Geoff Johns' way of keeping his sister's memory chaste? Because man, this is NOT working. It won't work. And every time a TV show does something like this I complain my head off, and fans of that show inevitably tell me to slow my roll and trust the producers. And I'm always right anyways, while the fans seem dumbfounded after the plot has fully shaken out that that the show has actually been destroyed by it. I'll tell you the silver lining about that. The show has been shaky enough for the past two and a half seasons that for once, I don't think anyone reading my review will protest my dislike of that. Sometimes when I push up against bad television, I seem to be knocking down what many people consider icons. I don't think I really have to worry about offending anyone who reads this review. The viewers and fans of this show are very well aware of its virtues AND faults. I'm not torching any sacred cows for once.

I mean, they've been building up Courtney and Cameron (and Cameron's powers) across multiple seasons and it seems like the relationship is building into the thematic arcs of the season of whether anyone is beyond redemption, how ones' heritage doesn't define them, and people can choose who they want to be. Not to mention whether Courtney can balance being Courtney Whitmore and Stargirl (and now she's pivoted in the other direction).

And why was Rick SO rude to Cameron at the table? I understand why he doesn't like or trust him. But Cameron doesn't. Is Rick so dumb he doesn't realize his uncalled for rudeness is actually suspicious? And if he truly believes Cameron is a threat is that the vibe he was wants to send to this potential threat with his behavior? What is this show doing?

Rick has always had a bit of a bad attitude problem that he's not good at concealing. I don't think he thinks Cameron is a threat so much as just someone he's heavily biased too.

I don't like seeing Joel McHale lose his cool. His cool is Joel McHale's entire selling point. Maybe you could argue the show is trying to let him stretch for once, but that's not an acting muscle I believe he needed to have pulled, or one I felt rewarded for him flexing. What is this show doing?

I think the progression they've shown with Sylvester makes a lot of sense knowing his background and what he went through, and I think McHale is doing a good job capturing that. And this was probably one of his more reasonable episodes even with him losing it against the ISA portrait.

Why was Thunderbolt in the JSA to begin with? The bit with the "nicer" bullies was truly funny, but it puts into sharp focus that he's a hindrance. Mr. Mxyzptlk was also similarly mischievous, and his intentions were similarly harmless. But Superman never asked him to join the Justice League either. Jeez.

Because on-paper the Thunderbolt is massively powerful and useful, but it's hard to actually get it to act that way. That was Johnny's biggest issue as a JSA member, but the rest of the team never judged him for it.

It's definitely bad TV pacing to milk these sub-plots to the very end when the audience had long since lost their patience. I'd add Yolanda-Cindy to that list of complaints as well even though Cindy is hiding stuff from the team. I hate it because it's painting Yolanda as very one-dimensional this season, imo. Then when they try to mix in cute DC references of no consequence like with Dr. Fate and Wotan this week, it comes off a little annoying.

I agree Yolanda hasn't had a lot to do this season other than her distrust for Cindy...even if I think it's justified from her experience with Cindy and how much Cindy ruined her life.

I did think the Dr. Fate joke was funny. Like Kent Nelson disliked Sylvester more than he did his own archenmesis. And Wotan's skin condition .

This almost distracted me from the fact we should be questioning why that iguana was alive and well in that not-used-in-a-long-time Dragon King bunker.

Too distracted by Sylvester's quip about it looking like his mom .

Well, they should have. He would have messed them up big time.

The Thunderbolt probably wouldn't have chosen an ISA member as a user, I would think.