"Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mayhem" Talkback (Spoilers)

Fone Bone

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Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mayhem

I am aware some people like my reviews. I am also aware some people find them insufferable and my pop-culture insights a mile wide and an inch deep. That's okay. Those people tend to value different things than I do, and I tend to value different things from not just critics, but other fans too. I suspect this movie was well-received and that I'm not the only person who loves it. But if there is somebody out there who hates my reviews, thinks my tastes are unsophisticated and basic despite muh fancy book larnin' words, you might finish this review in disgust that I just gave a Nickelodeon Ninja Turtles cartoon movie the same five star grade I gave Pulp Fiction, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, The Shawshank Redemption, and Fantasia. I also should note if that annoys you, you will probably understand how bothered I was by such a toxic and gross film as Joker winning Oscars and critical acclaim. You want to tell me Joker is a deep meditation on a powerless man fighting back against the system who failed him, instead of a celebration of underwhelming icky alpha males everywhere, be my guest. But I praise movies that end with Turtles getting to go to high school. It's weird that you don't.

I think it's for the best Eastman and Laird sold the Turtles to Nickelodeon. I didn't always think that. The Michael Bay films are low-hanging fruit about how disastrous that could have potentially been long-term, but I truly think the 2012 series was crazily even worse, and far more damaging because people took it more seriously as a legit interpretation instead of the blight upon the Earth it really was. But one of the reasons I dug Rise Of The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is the liberties it took with the premise and canon. It did stuff it shouldn't have done, and made the most enjoyable Turtles TV cartoon ever because of those changes. The 2012 cartoon was so stupid and damaging because it tried to make me fear the mutations, which is insane narrative malpractice. Rise had the proper level of humor attached to it and made the comic book property, initially designed as a satire, actually enjoyable.

This film starts off misleadingly serious and action heavy, and I love that the Universe feels credible right off the bat. But the rest of the film lets us have fun. I love the amount of pop culture references. You will never have seen another animated cartoon for kids have a character tell another character their head's shape is a combination of Stewie and Hey Arnold. And Mikey being perturbed the watermelon itself looked just like his head is comedic icing on the cake.

Speaking of Family Guy, I was a little surprised how graphic Puke Girl was, especially on a PG rating. Again, the only more graphic barf scene I've ever seen was the famous Family Guy bit, but that was freaking nasty. Honestly, if things were being graded fairly, it should have garnered the movie a PG-13. But the MPAA is unfathomably corrupt, I imagine money changed hands, and now we have to pretend THAT'S equivalent to Frozen. For crying out loud.

I love that Splinter hates humans. And I have to confess, I didn't find the scene where he's attacked when he goes out in public all that credible. I think people would have been more inclined to run away. But even if that hadn't happened, the movie had a keen insight that as a rat, one of the creatures mankind seems to hate the most, Splinter was ALWAYS on the angry end of that species. His life sucked WAY before he became a Man-Rat that humans attacked. Him thinking humans sucked would be logical based on his species even if that last bit didn't happen.

I mentioned the liberties Rise took with the franchise, and honestly I believe they could not have occurred if Laird had the hand in it he did for so long. For this movie, I can't picture him or Eastman allowing the Turtles to go to high school at the end. Because to make them accepted by humanity takes away one of the core tensions of the premise. But who says that core tension is great for the premise? Who says a different take wouldn't have value? Similarly, I love that Bebop and Rocksteady switch sides and become heroes. I'm sure they'll backslide if the sequel involves Shredder like the tag promises, but I think it's really cool this separate and unique continuity is allowed its own take on things, and nobody on high has told the producers "You can't do that with this premise. No." And Leo gets to take April to prom. Whether it's a real date is still to be decided, but I like that the movie is nice enough to give him that. And the movie is better for being unlike other Turtle projects, not just because that makes it unpredictable. But it also makes it weirdly feel-good, which the franchise most definitely is usually not. It was initially created as a biting satire about comic books, so many interpretations are cynical. Worse, I think 2012 and the Bay films got it into their heads that the premise should be taken SERIOUSLY, which is the dumbest idea ever. But making this film a crowdpleaser? I'm glad about that.

I love that the Turtles sound and act like kids for the first time ever. It's weird it's the first project to ever do that. Literally.

Do you know what kills me about this film's success? We should have had a slew of animated Turtle films already. TMNT was a box office hit, favorably received by both critics and fans, and sold a TON of toys. And New Line / WB for some crazy reason didn't greenlight a sequel. I know Nickelodeon bought the right a few years after that, but you'd figure there would have been enough time and demand for ONE sequel to that good movie. I feel like this is a franchise that lends itself to animated films rather than live-action ones. Of course I think that about DC and Marvel Comics too, but one argument at a time.

"Don't you do it, Matt! Don't you DARE give that kiddie, cotton-candy movie a perfect quality five-star grade!" Reach into your computer and try and stop me. *****.
 

PicardMan

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Surprised that this board has next to no attention to this film as Ninja Turtles are one of the biggest cartoon franchises out there. Really, every iteration of this franchise feels like a time capsule to whatever decade the movie/show was made and this was no different. Kinda surprised that this animated film probably had the most "damns" and "hells" since 1998's Antz. Whether animated films are allowed to say damn at all seems to fluctuate every few years. Also, of note, the writers for this movie actually had a fairly accurate anime reference, compared to the 2012 anime's iffy parody of Voltron. It appears that Donatello takes back the role as "team geek" from Leonardo, who had that role in the 2012 cartoon. Knowing Attack on Titan saved the day. For an animated action movie, it did fairly well at the box office (preestablished properties like Spider-Man and Turtles at least don't flop like original franchises). It seemed like Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles very short shelf life and mistreatment by Nickelodeon was going to kill the franchise, but it survived and had the best film in this franchise, better than the live action iterations.
 

Classic Speedy

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I liked the film overall, but with some caveats. As I said over at TVTropes during the downtime, the deliberately low framerate choice hurt it more than it helped it, and as such some moments in the action scenes were hard to follow.

I thought they went too far with Splinter being an actual bigot towards humans- in the original series and movies, it was more about emphasizing that a ninja stays hidden in the shadows to maintain advantage over foes, and that humans wouldn't be accepting/afraid of mutant turtles, not that they're all literally evil. (though the "they'll milk you!" running gag had a great pay-off: "I TOLD YOU!").

They went with "April as a teenager" characterization as also used in the 2012 series, which I'm fine with, and tying Channel 6 into it at the end was a nice touch. I could've done without the barfing scenes though. As I said over at TVT, the bullying she got from it wasn't done nearly as well as Ron's Gone Wrong- that film really nailed how relentless piling on can drive someone to depression.

Most of the voices were fine, though I'm still not crazy about Donny's voice. Nothing against the actor, it just felt too far removed from what I'm used to.

Shredder not being the main villain was surprising to me. Superfly was great, though, and Ice Cube gave an appropriately intimidating (but not TOO much so) performance.
 

Fone Bone

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I thought they went too far with Splinter being an actual bigot towards humans-
Have you ever read the book Mrs. Frisby And The Rats Of NIMH? One of the most brilliant things about it I loved as a kid is that when the Rats learned how to read they were shocked to discover mankind hated them, and that along with snakes considered them the most detestable creatures on Earth. I dug this movie making that Splinter's experience, even before the Mutation. I hate rats and mice myself, but I cannot deny my hatred is irrational and would probably puzzle the creatures themselves. I love the idea that Splinter felt the pain of how much humans intrinsically hate rats and paid it right back. That's a super interesting idea. Is it like other Splinter portrayals? No, but it's interesting because you'd figure it would have affected one of them before this. The fact that Splinter was mutated into mankind's most hated creature is never remarked upon in any other iteration, even when his rat design, like in Rise, 2014, and 2012 is outright repulsive. That's actually weird.

Also April was a teenager (and Black) in Rise too.
 

Corwin Haught

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The film receive six Annie Award nominations.

BEST FEATURE
Paramount Pictures and Nickelodeon Movies

BEST DIRECTION – FEATURE
Jeff Rowe, Kyler Spears

BEST MUSIC – FEATURE
Trent Reznor, Atticus Ross

BEST PRODUCTION DESIGN – FEATURE
Yashar Kassai, Arthur, Tiffany Lam

BEST WRITING – FEATURE
Seth Rogen, Evan Goldberg, Jeff Rowe, Dan Hernandez, Benji Samit

BEST EDITORIAL – FEATURE
Greg Levitan, Illya Quinteros, David Croomes, Myra Owyang

 

CyberCubed

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Animation and production values were great, but the story wasn't very good. And whoever decided Donatello has to wear glasses because he's "the nerd" needs to be fired. I can't believe they're going with a 40+ year old outdated stereotype like this when Don has NEVER needed glasses.
 

Goldstar!

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Animation and production values were great, but the story wasn't very good. And whoever decided Donatello has to wear glasses because he's "the nerd" needs to be fired. I can't believe they're going with a 40+ year old outdated stereotype like this when Don has NEVER needed glasses.
Donatello's glasses were likely added so there'd be a way to distinguish him from his 3 brothers and so there'd be a way to tell all of them apart aside from their weapons and mask colors. One of several reasons why some TV executives initially believed that TMNT wouldn't take off was because the 4 titular turtles all looked too much alike. This is likely why in the later incarnations of TMNT the turtles have been made to be more physically distinctive from one another. In any case, I'm not sure why you're slamming this movie for giving Donnie glasses when the "Bay Turtles" movies did it first.
 
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Fone Bone

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The "glasses are nerdy" stereotype only applies in this movie if you believe Donatello is a nerd. I don't.

I thought the glasses were more a statement that the Turtles are kids, and sometimes awkward kids at that. And considering their alienation from humanity they should be. The glasses humanize Donnie and also show a longing to fit in to humanity visually. I think they work great.
 

PicardMan

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The "glasses are nerdy" stereotype only applies in this movie if you believe Donatello is a nerd. I don't.

That term has such a frequent history of changing definitions that I can't really say. Every turtles incarnation has Donatello as the smart guy, and smart people wearing glasses is a common stereotype. I guess if "smart"="nerd" then yes. The other stereotype "anime fan"="nerd" is interesting as the 2020s might be the first decade ever where at least for Zoomers born after 2000, liking anime is no longer taboo. This version of the turtles is obviously set in the 2020s, so Donatello shouldn't receive the bullying he would have as an anime fan in the 00s or early 2010s. Interesting that Leonardo was the stereotypical nerd into ersatz Star Trek and ersatz Voltron in the 2010s cartoon. Donatello seems like stereotypical early 2010s depiction of a "nerd," just as 2012 Leonardo was.
 

CyberCubed

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There is literally no reason why Don should be wearing glasses. It's awful. None of the previous series did that (besides the hated 2014 movies), and it's only added because Don is "the smart one."

It makes me sick just thinking about it. Imagine if in the original TMNT cartoon, the 4kids cartoon, the 2012 Nick cartoon, or the old live-action movies...they made Don wear glasses. It would look awful. This is some weird outdated stereotype by 50+ year old writers (Seth Rogen), who because when he went to school as a kid saw nerds/smart kids wearing glasses, that this has to be a thing. I can't imagine the young zoomers growing up today thinking this is a good thing.
 

Fone Bone

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There is literally no reason why Don should be wearing glasses. It's awful. None of the previous series did that (besides the hated 2014 movies), and it's only added because Don is "the smart one."

It makes me sick just thinking about it. Imagine if in the original TMNT cartoon, the 4kids cartoon, the 2012 Nick cartoon, or the old live-action movies...they made Don wear glasses. It would look awful. This is some weird outdated stereotype by 50+ year old writers (Seth Rogen), who because when he went to school as a kid saw nerds/smart kids wearing glasses, that this has to be a thing. I can't imagine the young zoomers growing up today thinking this is a good thing.
Counterpoint. Billy wearing glasses on Power Rangers made kids who did feel included and not as alienated as the rest of kid media made them feel at the time. David Yost often told stories about kids in glasses in tears who walked up to give him a hug for showing other kids it was not something to be ashamed of.

Donnie wearing glasses is bad only if you think wearing glasses is bad. I think it's a positive thing if you don't.
 

CyberCubed

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But the Turtles were not designed to be unique from each other, adding glasses is just pointless. In the original comics they were all identical with red masks, and while I don't mind height differences or some small changes (the 2012 cartoon did this well), they should all still look similar.
 

Light Lucario

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There is literally no reason why Don should be wearing glasses. It's awful. None of the previous series did that (besides the hated 2014 movies), and it's only added because Don is "the smart one."

It makes me sick just thinking about it. Imagine if in the original TMNT cartoon, the 4kids cartoon, the 2012 Nick cartoon, or the old live-action movies...they made Don wear glasses. It would look awful. This is some weird outdated stereotype by 50+ year old writers (Seth Rogen), who because when he went to school as a kid saw nerds/smart kids wearing glasses, that this has to be a thing. I can't imagine the young zoomers growing up today thinking this is a good thing.
This feels like such an overreaction to a character wearing glasses, especially for someone like me who has needed glasses since I was thirteen. Yeah, there is the stereotype about the smart character wearing glasses, but I don't think that this really that big of a deal. More people wearing glasses in media can still be good, even if it often used to determine who the smart one is marketing wise. I would hope that fewer, or ideally no one, is made fun for needing glasses and part of that could be due to seeing how common place that is in different media. I'm almost positive that no one would care if Donnie had glasses in any of the other cartoon series.

But the Turtles were not designed to be unique from each other, adding glasses is just pointless. In the original comics they were all identical with red masks, and while I don't mind height differences or some small changes (the 2012 cartoon did this well), they should all still look similar.
This sounds like a pretty strange argument considering that the turtles tend to look different from each other in most of the animated series. Even in the 2k3 series, they had different shades of green in their designs to stand out. Rise of the TMNT gave them pretty distinct designs as well, so they have had other redesigns to make them stand out and it isn't just Donnie with his glasses.
 

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