Who will buy Paramount?

[harry580]

But it looks like the battle will likely be Japan money going against Saudi & Chinese money here.

so, you betting sony will win the bidding war here

 

[lowell]

so, you betting sony will win the bidding war here

I mean, it could happen. Paramount Global was initially skeptical of Apollo going on its own bid, because there were concerns on whether they can raise enough money.

Now, if Sony partners up with them, they'll pool the financing together to fund the deal.

 

[Elijah Abrams]

It also makes the offer a little more serious now in trying to keep the company as intact as possible into the future, because Apollo could technically cash out of the venture down the road, selling their stake to Sony.

But then we'll end up with another Disney/Fox-style merger where either Paramount Pictures or Columbia (Sony) Pictures get folded into one or the other.

 

[lowell]

But then we'll end up with another Disney/Fox-style merger where either Paramount Pictures or Columbia (Sony) Pictures get folded into one or the other.

As long as Paramount and Sony are both producing stuff as a whole, they wouldn't need to actually fold one into another.

They could technically be organized into a WB/New Line structure. Tri-Star, Screen Gems, Destination, Stage 6 would be folded into Columbia. Worldwide Acquisitions, Affirm, and Classics would be combined into one Classics division.

If we're going to see content being produced for both traditional outlets like theatrical box office & linear networks and streaming, they will need to keep both of them up and running.

 

[Elijah Abrams]

They could technically be organized into a WB/New Line structure.

A pre-2008 WB/New Line structure?

 

[lowell]

A pre-2008 WB/New Line structure?

It can definitely be that way because they each have their own unique production styles. The same thing with the Classics division.

But there will be a central marketing and distribution operation.

Brian Robbins would get to continue his control over Paramount but will report to Tom Rothman with Rothman probably training him to take his helms once he wants to retire.

 

[Moe]

But then we'll end up with another Disney/Fox-style merger where either Paramount Pictures or Columbia (Sony) Pictures get folded into one or the other.

Unlike Disney, Sony is not movie studio and they sell tech stuffs like Playstation, camera, TV, etc.

It is more about ownership for investment and much less with merger, so if Apollo-Sony buy Paramount, so they are going to invest and put more money to help Paramount to grow and recover from loss, so Paramount would be well prepared to run their studio in streaming era.

I doubt that Paramount would become like Disney/20th Century, so that is totally different situation.

Skydance is still working with Paramount right now and if deal apart away, so Apollo-Sony could be next, but deal could apart fall, so it happens.

Regulators are going to be very ugly if Sony is involved because of Funimation and Crunchyroll.

 

[lowell]

Unlike Disney, Sony is not movie studio and they sell tech stuffs like Playstation, camera, TV, etc.

It is more about ownership for investment and much less with merger, so if Apollo-Sony buy Paramount, so they are going to invest and put more money to help Paramount to grow and recover from loss, so Paramount would be well prepared to run their studio in streaming era.

I doubt that Paramount would become like Disney/20th Century, so that is totally different situation.

Skydance is still working with Paramount right now and if deal apart away, so Apollo-Sony could be next, but deal could apart fall, so it happens.

Regulators are going to be very ugly if Sony is involved because of Funimation and Crunchyroll.

Plus, instead of actually having to start from scratch, Sony would have an established DTC operation through Paramount+.

And Bakish is doing the hard work to get it through the break-even point and reaching profitability right now.

It also wouldn't even be surprising to say Crunchyroll likely lost a lot of money way before it was even under AT&T's WarnerMedia and then becoming profitable later on.

They could use what they learned from Crunchyroll to determine what would be the optimal plan to succeed in streaming for them: put both Crunchyroll and Paramount+ into a bundle or bring them together to form a superservice that becomes lucrative in the long run.

 

[Moe]

Plus, instead of actually having to start from scratch, Sony would have an established DTC operation through Paramount+.

No, Apollo-Sony ownership don't enable Sony to own Paramount+ outright but it allow them to supervise Paramount Global to ensure that they are making a lot of money and recover the loss in streaming era.

Sony already have deal with Netflix, Disney+, Starz and few other streaming services to stream their movies so they don't need Paramount+ and if it was up to Sony, so Sony could shut it down or merge with Comcast's Peacock, so allow Comcast manage everything as Sony make tons of money by license movies and shows out to services.

The decision isn't rests with Sony but it need Apollo to greenlight due to two companies own one company.

It is strictly about investment like Microsoft did to Apple in mid 1990s.

it also wouldn't even be surprising to say Crunchyroll likely lost a lot of money way before it was even under AT&T's WarnerMedia and then becoming profitable later on.

I'm not sure about unprofitability with Crunchyroll since they didn't have a frequent and huge price hikes like Disney+, Netflix and Hulu did.

Crunchyroll has been around for many years now.

I do think AT&T was experiment with streaming and it didn't work for them.

They could use what they learned from Crunchyroll to determine what would be the optimal plan to succeed in streaming for them: put both Crunchyroll and Paramount+ into a bundle or bring them together to form a superservice that becomes lucrative in the long run.

Very unlikely and anime streaming is for niche market.

Paramount+ don't have enough money to expand the contents.

It is likely for Paramount+ to be absorbed into other major streaming like Peacock.

Remember, Sony is not movie studio and they have to take care of electronic and video games, especially Playstation, so Sony don't want to get distracted if there is problem with movie studio, so as for reason, Apollo is likely to fix the studio that allow to make money.

 

[lowell]

No, Apollo-Sony ownership don't enable Sony to own Paramount+ outright but it allow them to supervise Paramount Global to ensure that they are making a lot of money and recover the loss in streaming era.

Sony already have deal with Netflix, Disney+, Starz and few other streaming services to stream their movies so they don't need Paramount+ and if it was up to Sony, so Sony could shut it down or merge with Comcast's Peacock, so allow Comcast manage everything as Sony make tons of money by license movies and shows out to services.

The decision isn't rests with Sony but it need Apollo to greenlight due to two companies own one company.

It is strictly about investment like Microsoft did to Apple in mid 1990s.


I'm not sure about unprofitability with Crunchyroll since they didn't have a frequent and huge price hikes like Disney+, Netflix and Hulu did.

Crunchyroll has been around for many years now.

I do think AT&T was experiment with streaming and it didn't work for them.


Very unlikely and anime streaming is for niche market.

Paramount+ don't have enough money to expand the contents.

It is likely for Paramount+ to be absorbed into other major streaming like Peacock.

Remember, Sony is not movie studio and they have to take care of electronic and video games, especially Playstation, so Sony don't want to get distracted if there is problem with movie studio, so as for reason, Apollo is likely to fix the studio that allow to make money.

Apparently, Apollo could cash out their stake in the joint venture if they wanted to and Sony would buy out their stake.

The reason they're pairing up into the joint venture is that they want to pool the financing together to buy Paramount Global.

Sony's licensing deals actually expire in 2026 so Paramount+ could be a platform for them to bring their library to:



And there's even no need to make it one path or the other, Sony can take a hybrid approach like WarnerDiscovery here, doing both content licensing and streaming concurrently.

On Crunchyroll, AT&T originally got it entirely as part of Otter Media so they could help WarnerMedia have additional content on HBO Max (hence why for a time, some of its content appeared on that service).

Even if anime streaming is niche, Sony having some DTC experience like this does still count here.

If Paramount+ does get through the break-even point and reaches profitability, there's actually an argument to keep it around as a revenue stream.

At that point, international expansion will be more of a focus and Sony does have global reach that can help with that. They can even use PlayStation to help out with the rollout.

In fact, Paramount's franchises could be used to make PlayStation games.

Also, Vinciquerra will probably be the CEO running this joint venture. And the plans might not just be relegated to streaming or video games.

Apollo's role as a financial partner here might even technically help Sony build out a new theme park from scratch.

 

[Moe]

Apparently, Apollo could cash out their stake in the joint venture if they wanted to and Sony would buy out their stake.

The reason they're pairing up into the joint venture is that they want to pool the financing together to buy Paramount Global.

It was Apollo made a first one to propose to buy Paramount and Apollo didn't drag Sony in until owner of Paramount Global cast their doubt about financing, so that why I called Apollo-Sony ownership and go further is unpredictable. The deal could apart away, tho.

Sony's licensing deals actually expire in 2026 so Paramount+ could be a platform for them to bring their library to:

May or may not, the deal can be renewed and Disney is unlikely partnership with Sony, especially work with Marvel on Spiderman film and release Disney films on DVD/BD/4K. Sony make most of money when they license out to third party streaming, so their earning would be compromised if it went to Paramount+, but future of Paramount+ is uncertain because it could be folded into different streaming service like Peacock. Remember, Sony is business and they want to make most money so they wouldn't accept at loss, so Apollo agrees as well.

Even if anime streaming is niche, Sony having some DTC experience like this does still count here.

That's too ambitious and that why I said unlikely because future of Paramount+ is in doubt.

If Paramount+ does get through the break-even point and reaches profitability, there's actually an argument to keep it around as a revenue stream.

If streaming market crash, it is going to be a hot mess and we don't know about what Apollo-Sony want with Paramount+, so it is possible to see fold in. There is no doubt that Paramount+ is going to have rounds of price hikes and customers would cancel more and keep fewer one.

At that point, international expansion will be more of a focus and Sony does have global reach that can help with that. They can even use PlayStation to help out with the rollout.

Sony has their Columbia and Sony Pictures to do movies and shows based on Playstation, however I'm saying that Playstation as video game is biggest business and Sony don't want a problem with movie studio that drags them down. I'm not talking about shows and movies based on video game, but rather about manage the corporation with multiple subsidiaries since add Paramount is going to give more responsibility.

It looks like Sony teamed with Universal TV to make Twisted Metal show.

I don't agree with business concept - Sony-Paramount because I don't see as Disney-20th Century because Apollo was first to offer to buy entirely until Paramount cast their doubt and Apollo drags Sony in. In my view, Paramount is either owned by Skydance or Apollo-Sony, but Paramount continue to run as independent company with some oversight on financial, so Apollo-Sony could order Paramount to cut the budget, fix the problems and other remedial options.

 

[lowell]

It was Apollo made a first one to propose to buy Paramount and Apollo didn't drag Sony in until owner of Paramount Global cast their doubt about financing, so that why I called Apollo-Sony ownership and go further is unpredictable. The deal could apart away, tho.


May or may not, the deal can be renewed and Disney is unlikely partnership with Sony, especially work with Marvel on Spiderman film and release Disney films on DVD/BD/4K. Sony make most of money when they license out to third party streaming, so their earning would be compromised if it went to Paramount+, but future of Paramount+ is uncertain because it could be folded into different streaming service like Peacock. Remember, Sony is business and they want to make most money so they wouldn't accept at loss, so Apollo agrees as well.


That's too ambitious and that why I said unlikely because future of Paramount+ is in doubt.


If streaming market crash, it is going to be a hot mess and we don't know about what Apollo-Sony want with Paramount+, so it is possible to see fold in. There is no doubt that Paramount+ is going to have rounds of price hikes and customers would cancel more and keep fewer one.


Sony has their Columbia and Sony Pictures to do movies and shows based on Playstation, however I'm saying that Playstation as video game is biggest business and Sony don't want a problem with movie studio that drags them down. I'm not talking about shows and movies based on video game, but rather about manage the corporation with multiple subsidiaries since add Paramount is going to give more responsibility.

It looks like Sony teamed with Universal TV to make Twisted Metal show.

I don't agree with business concept - Sony-Paramount because I don't see as Disney-20th Century because Apollo was first to offer to buy entirely until Paramount cast their doubt and Apollo drags Sony in. In my view, Paramount is either owned by Skydance or Apollo-Sony, but Paramount continue to run as independent company with some oversight on financial, so Apollo-Sony could order Paramount to cut the budget, fix the problems and other remedial options.

Honestly, you never know, anything can happen in this joint venture.

I think a reason Sony is looking at this opportunity is that they want to also diversify themselves as well.

They are also looking ahead on how to not depend on only a few revenue streams in the future.


If they diversified, they would not have to be risking their revenue based on just how their film slate will be hits or misses or home media or content licensing.

Sony might decide content licensing isn't enough for them so they want to do it along with streaming concurrently to bring in as much money as possible.

If getting into streaming overall was too ambitious at all for Sony, they wouldn't have gone after Crunchyroll.

They know they don't have to start everything from scratch when they can just buy established DTC operations.

PlayStation can play a part in helping either a Paramount+ & Crunchyroll bundle or a combined superservice in its international rollout.

As for video games, they can use Paramount's franchises to make PlayStation-exclusive titles.

Their contract for Insomniac Marvel games that runs out until 2032 has expensive royalties and licensing fees so they want to avoid that by having more in-house IPs to make games of similar scale.

They also want to utilize these franchises beyond film & TV as well in not just gaming (through PlayStation), but also publishing, merchandising, theme parks, other consumer products licensing, etc. because that's also a lot of money on the table as well.

But overall, people might not see the direction I'm talking about, and we'll have to see where it goes.

 

[Moe]

Apollo is reason that I shared kinda stern opinion, also partnership ownership is unpredictable and complicated, so if it was Sony alone and they become a first to offer, so it would be totally different story. There is my warning - don't get hope up and it can be disappointment. That why I said about what happen with Paramount is unpredictable and you have to find out. No one know about what happened when Discovery bought WB and some members went too ambitious and end up as angry and disappointed.

I have no interest to drag myself into endless discussion before deal closes and first day of new ownership, so it is unpredictable.

If getting into streaming overall was too ambitious at all for Sony, they wouldn't have gone after Crunchyroll.

At time when WBD start to sell Crunchyroll, so there weren't any better option, so Sony easily won to buy it, however Sony made several bad decisions after bought Funimation and one of example that they cut Funimation out of VRV that upset a lot of fans. There is no doubt, there would be some business decisions that you aren't going to like or not get as you expected.

No one know about right now.

You can go ambitious if you want but sorry, I'm not into it. What happened with Discovery's acquisition WB hurt me a lot and still felt guilty because I seem upset numbers of members in here.

Their contract for Insomniac Marvel games that runs out until 2032 has expensive royalties and licensing fees so they want to avoid that by having more in-house IPs to make games of similar scale.

That's not an issue to Sony and Marvel because Spiderman games are selling like hotcakes and they absolutely have no issues to expand with other Marvel titles, so Sony know about video game business.

 

[lowell]

Apollo is reason that I shared kinda stern opinion, also partnership ownership is unpredictable and complicated, so if it was Sony alone and they become a first to offer, so it would be totally different story. There is my warning - don't get hope up and it can be disappointment. That why I said about what happen with Paramount is unpredictable and you have to find out. No one know about what happened when Discovery bought WB and some members went too ambitious and end up as angry and disappointed.

I have no interest to drag myself into endless discussion before deal closes and first day of new ownership, so it is unpredictable.


At time when WBD start to sell Crunchyroll, so there weren't any better option, so Sony easily won to buy it, however Sony made several bad decisions after bought Funimation and one of example that they cut Funimation out of VRV that upset a lot of fans. There is no doubt, there would be some business decisions that you aren't going to like or not get as you expected.

No one know about right now.

You can go ambitious if you want but sorry, I'm not into it. What happened with Discovery's acquisition WB hurt me a lot and still felt guilty because I seem upset numbers of members in here.


That's not an issue to Sony and Marvel because Spiderman games are selling like hotcakes and they absolutely have no issues to expand with other Marvel titles, so Sony know about video game business.

The future sales of those games are an issue, especially if cut of royalties and licensing fees eventually get in the way of them breaking even and making profit, it might not be worth it for them to keep going beyond the end of the contract.

That's why they want to get more in-house franchises because they can avoid having to get expensive licenses like Marvel if necessary.

It wouldn't surprise me if Paramount's franchises will be utilized to make PlayStation-exclusive titles.

And within a joint venture, I think building a theme park isn't too ambitious if both partners can actually come up with the capital for building it.

We'll probably agree to disagree on all of these things but it's kind of early to say they're not going to do this and they're not going to do that.

The judgements will be evolved when more details are released and we'll have to see what happens.

 

[themidnightlore]

Everyone keeps forgetting that ParGlo owns Game One and J-One in France. If the Sony-Apollo buyout happens, I can see the channels getting synergies with Crunchyroll and Playstation.

 

[lowell]

Everyone keeps forgetting that ParGlo owns Game One and J-One in France. If the Sony-Apollo buyout happens, I can see the channelgs getting synergies with Crunchyroll and Playstation.

It's also the same thing with Paramount Network, they could rebrand it as Spike again and show PlayStation presentations on the channel just like how E3 presentations used to air there.

There could even be collaborations between Crunchyroll & Nickelodeon as well.

 

[Moe]

If I went ambitious like Lowell did - I hopefully Sony fix to make all old Paramount contents like Nash Bridges streamable without any disputes, so it would be useful in streaming age but unfortunately, digital home video isn't in Sony's interest because they haven't make all of Starsky & Hutch available to buy, especially third and fourth seasons and neither are all of Police Story, Police Woman, Riptide, etc.

What Apollo-Sony do to Paramount is totally unpredictable, so there is likely event that we will see is cost cutting measures on Paramount part and price hikes for Paramount+, so beside two, it is much unchanged as Paramount continue to manage their own studio and network with oversight by someone that is appointed by Apollo and Sony.

 

[lowell]

If I went ambitious like Lowell did - I hopefully Sony fix to make all old Paramount contents like Nash Bridges streamable without any disputes, so it would be useful in streaming age but unfortunately, digital home video isn't in Sony's interest because they haven't make all of Starsky & Hutch available to buy, especially third and fourth seasons and neither are all of Police Story, Police Woman, Riptide, etc.

What Apollo-Sony do to Paramount is totally unpredictable, so there is likely event that we will see is cost cutting measures on Paramount part and price hikes for Paramount+, so beside two, it is much unchanged as Paramount continue to manage their own studio and network with oversight by someone that is appointed by Apollo and Sony.

I mean, Vinciquerra is probably leading the joint-venture given how involved he's in this.

Apparently, some people also want Sony to do more 4K remasterings because Paramount Global hasn't done that enough recently for a lot of titles.

I think physical home media just gets more of a special treatment because it's something you can hold in your hand. Digital home media also makes decent money as well but it's ultimately something you don't carry with you around like discs.

But yeah, overall, we'll have to wait for more details on this.

 

[Moe]

Apparently, some people also want Sony to do more 4K remasterings because Paramount Global hasn't done that enough recently for a lot of titles.

I forgot to mention about Paramount released Walker, Texas Ranger with HD transfer and cropped widescreen and back in 2019, Walker, Texas Ranger was mostly un-streamable like Nash Bridges and JAG. That was unusual move and it seems like Paramount is speeding up the digital age.

I can't thinking about TV shows received 4K transfer, beside several shows aired on premium channels.

There is Movies Anywhere that where Sony is member and they could make all Paramount films available on Movies Anywhere, and they haven't expanded to include TV shows for years now and I think that has with complication to make TV shows available on all digital platform via cloud.

Universal won the game to make many of their shows available to buy digitally, and next is WB so last one would be Disney. Sony and Paramount are middle.

 

[PF9]

Sony should be disqualified to avoid a repeat of what happened after Disney-Fox.

I prefer Sony buy AMC Networks, Lionsgate, Starz, and the non-news assets of Fox to create something comparable to the other media conglomerates that own a major movie studio.

Paramount Global should be acquired by Skydance for now then after Charter takes care of its debt Skydance can buy them out giving them access to numerous regional news and sports channels that can be integrated into the CBS Entertainment Group, including two RSNs in LA co-owned with the Dodgers and Lakers, with those teams being bought out do that Skydance has full ownership of those RSNs.

Spectrum subscribers can also have free P+ under the arrangement I am proposing.