When will American animation grow up?

[SaneMan]

A good writer can make even seemingly cliche things work well

 

[Nick Mick]

I don't know about you guys, but American animation for me, is quite hard for me to compare with other cartoon imports from Europe, let's say.

What has been obvious when watching an European show, is that they are really engaging, creative, and creator-driven. Now don't get me wrong: as for American/Canadian animation, tons of people specialized with it, are also really good, not to mention show runners and creators that influenced a lot the animated industry in general. But regardless of that, the pressure put under talented crews and shows nowadays by net executives, really shows how the final product of an American animated show seems to be more about passable visuals and jokes people of a very specific demographic can only enjoy.

Let's take for example, The Adventures of Kid Danger. The spin-off of the *cough* popular *cough* Dan "Get in the Van" Schneider live action show, had a rather troubling production history, with a crew not having time to adjust at using new for them animated software (ToonBoom), due to terrible schedules, resulting in tools in this software not used, and animation that seems like was made in GoAnimate. The humor... you know how it plays out like.

And now, let's compare it with The Illusionist, a thrilling, emotional movie, that despite taking a lot of time to make, judging by the very fluent animation, and the fact it isn't as profitable as a generic kids movie, it stays as what it is: a piece of art, that will be admired for years to come. Not to mention, that its jokes can be understandable by all general audiences.

And I don't think the fact this is a movie should mean I should compare a product of the times, with another show, because if the time it takes to make one episode. Shows like Princess of the Nile (which, unlike that terrible Gods of Egypt movie, actually has more than shiny stuff to distract the audience's attention, and actually succeeds at every single point, including animation, and mature story telling, that kids can follow), actually can succeed at that, and they are full-length shows!

Overall, the irrelevance shown in this comparison, really shows how American animation still has a long way to go, and that it should be better if companies could allow creators to work as much as they can, to perfect what they make. Sure, a lot of time will pass, but the result will be beautiful.

 

[SweetShop209]

Yeah, that's pretty much the gist of it. Okay, maybe not all of it, but this clash between creators and network executives is part of why American animation is not taken as seriously. Because America is such an influential country, it's pretty much the go to country for influential ideas regarding anything even if places abroad treat animation with more respect.

 

[Red Arrow]

I don't know about you guys, but American animation for me, is quite hard for me to compare with other cartoon imports from Europe, let's say.

What has been obvious when watching an European show, is that they are really engaging, creative, and creator-driven. Now don't get me wrong: as for American/Canadian animation, tons of people specialized with it, are also really good, not to mention show runners and creators that influenced a lot the animated industry in general. But regardless of that, the pressure put under talented crews and shows nowadays by net executives, really shows how the final product of an American animated show seems to be more about passable visuals and jokes people of a very specific demographic can only enjoy.

Let's take for example, The Adventures of Kid Danger. The spin-off of the *cough* popular *cough* Dan "Get in the Van" Schneider live action show, had a rather troubling production history, with a crew not having time to adjust at using new for them animated software (ToonBoom), due to terrible schedules, resulting in tools in this software not used, and animation that seems like was made in GoAnimate. The humor... you know how it plays out like.

And now, let's compare it with The Illusionist, a thrilling, emotional movie, that despite taking a lot of time to make, judging by the very fluent animation, and the fact it isn't as profitable as a generic kids movie, it stays as what it is: a piece of art, that will be admired for years to come. Not to mention, that its jokes can be understandable by all general audiences.

And I don't think the fact this is a movie should mean I should compare a product of the times, with another show, because if the time it takes to make one episode. Shows like Princess of the Nile (which, unlike that terrible Gods of Egypt movie, actually has more than shiny stuff to distract the audience's attention, and actually succeeds at every single point, including animation, and mature story telling, that kids can follow), actually can succeed at that, and they are full-length shows!

Overall, the irrelevance shown in this comparison, really shows how American animation still has a long way to go, and that it should be better if companies could allow creators to work as much as they can, to perfect what they make. Sure, a lot of time will pass, but the result will be beautiful.

I don't think it's fair to compare something you like from one continent with something you don't from another. The United States just makes a lot more animation so of course some of it is going to be junk.

But yes, in terms of movies, I definitely think European movies are less generic and have more heart to it. But I think many of them are funded by several governments and thus less dependent on popularity / success. European animators just have more freedom. However, American animators are more likely to find work.

 

[SourSweetGone]

why bump a 4 year old thread? My general question is when will people grow up and stop viewing things like excessive swearing, sex & violence as mature?

U.S. animation has grown up in the real way (to paraphrase pearl) a lot this decade.

I wanna know when so called "adult animation" most of which is actually extremely juvenile. And a good chunk of anime aimed at Male audiences (which is often very sexist and equally cliche/juvenile as U.S. adult animation) will grow up and stop feeling like something written by an overly hyper thirteen year old!?

 

[Frank98]

Of course when people say that they want animation to "grow up", they don't necessarely mean the amount of swears or vulgarity. What they want is the variety of themes, subjects and genres that can already be found in several other mediums. To think of "adult entertainment" you need to look no further than movies, really.

When people point out that adult animation is terrible, they mostly refer to the shows and movies that already exist. But who says that things have to be or stay that way? Of course, the only way to know for sure will be when there's a consistent amount of animations for adults..

But look at anime. Look at Satoshi Kon. Look at movies like Anomalisa. Look at the several shorts made by indipendent animators. Those are examples of what animation can truly do if one just tries. We will never evolve if we're afraid to try new things.

 

[Dudley]

There has to be an audience for it first. Not many people demand that type of content from animation, or when it’s made, not a lot of people are interested. Look at some of the animated films that get nominated for Oscar, like Animolisa, or Loving Vincent. Have anyone here saw those films? I bet many who demand this kind of change don’t even bother watching it themselves. Same with people who want 2D animated films but don’t bother to watch those that are made globally.
I wouldn’t be surprised if studios don’t bother knowing that people can just watch anime instead.


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[Frank98]

How can an audience demand something that barely even exists yet? These kind of movies have to be made first; otherwise we'll get nowhere.

 

[Red Arrow]

How can an audience demand something that barely even exists yet? These kind of movies have to be made first; otherwise we'll get nowhere.

If such a movie ever gets popular, I'm sure lots of others will follow. But it's a huge "if". I'm afraid Dudley is right.

 

[VHSTrader234]

They have gotten more childish lately. Anybody remember the first episode of Static Shock? It dealt with gang and gun violence in the first episode. The main character is literally given a gun and forced to join a gang war. There's another episode that deals with homeless people and mental illnesses and death. It's too bad we don't have any more balance anymore.

Bob's Burgers, anyone?

No thanks. I'd prefer KOTH. It was real and really made you think sometimes.

 

[SourSweetGone]

They have gotten more childish lately. Anybody remember the first episode of Static Shock? It dealt with gang and gun violence in the first episode. The main character is literally given a gun and forced to join a gang war. There's another episode that deals with homeless people and mental illnesses and death. It's too bad we don't have any more balance anymore.

This isinnacurate. Modern animations deal with things like puberty, loss of a loved one, depression and anxiety. Shows deal withthe more in depth subtle interacicies of our psyches and everyday thoughts and interactions.

Also maybe they don't deal with things like drugs, beer & gun violence because despite showing people the dangers of such for decades we never seen to learn. Well that and we sadly live in a country that cares more about guns then kids so why add additional trauma to a child over something they already know most of those in positions of power will do nothing to stop beyond "thoughts & prayers"

 

[VHSTrader234]

This isinnacurate. Modern animations deal with things like puberty, loss of a loved one, depression and anxiety. Shows deal withthe more in depth subtle interacicies of our psyches and everyday thoughts and interactions.

I've seen all that in older cartoons too.

so why add additional trauma to a child over something they already know most of those in positions of power will do nothing to stop beyond "thoughts & prayers"

Because no position of power can remove guns in America because they already exist and banning them wouldn't remove the guns already in circulation. It wouldn't prevent imports from Mexico. It wouldn't stop people from making bombs using the The Anarchist Cookbook you can rent from the library. By the way we're referencing gangs here, most of their guns are going to be obtained illegally so banning guns won't stop gangs from obtaining guns illegally.

Static Shock shows a different position, the only way to avoid the violence is to not participate in it. He throws his gun in the lake. The main message message is to stay out of gangs.

I think it's an important serious message because in the city kids are pressured to join gangs with guns at a young age. That's something you wouldn't understand unless you grew up in the city. Cartoons today wouldn't even touch this subject.

 

[Nick Mick]

I guess there are cartoons about gun safety, with the mascot of the NRA, Eddie Eagle, but given the fact they play out like a really corny Dora the Explorer episode...

Though with that said, I agree with SourSweetGone about some American cartoons nowadays not being afraid to touch such subjects.

 

[VHSTrader234]

I guess there are cartoons about gun safety,

I've never seen guns in any other kids cartoons except Static Shock. That was pre 9/11.
I don't personally care that much about guns in cartoons it was just an example off the top of my head. I would like to see cartoons more serious in general not just focusing on puberty, school, or death. I like cartoons that feel like there's something actually at stake if they fail. Something with an overarching story.


Something else serious I'd actually like to see is drugs addressed in an honest different more serious way than cartoon all-stars.

Cartoon All-Stars Marijuana

 

[Nick Mick]

Aw god, the memories.... I mean, I don't even need the Nostalgia Critic to see why it's bad... You have, ALL THESE OFFICIALLY LICENSED ICONS, and you make them talk about drugs? In a childish way?

 

[VHSTrader234]

talk about drugs? In a childish way?

Right, an honest PSA about marijuana would be good. It needs to be compared honestly to hard drugs. Some people think hard drugs are fine because they were lied to about marijuana. A cartoon addressing the dangers of drugs in general would be nice.

 

[PapaGreg]

Right, an honest PSA about marijuana would be good. It needs to be compared honestly to hard drugs. Some people think hard drugs are fine because they were lied to about marijuana. A cartoon addressing the dangers of drugs in general would be nice.

I dont think kid cartoons should talk about real life drugs maybe some allegory here and there but discussing cannibis vs opium shouldt be a thing

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[VHSTrader234]

I dont think kid cartoons should talk about real life drugs maybe some allegory here and there but discussing cannibis vs opium shouldt be a thing

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I don't think it should be in any current shows but if they wanted to do a PSA with characters they invent themselves I'm for it. I don't think it should be like sonic says but I do find it hilarious.

 

[SourSweetGone]

Marijuana is hardly compatible to hard drugs. And the war on drugs was a failure.

Also back to guns OK KO did a very relevant episode about our contry's dangerous obsession and over dependence on guns in the Skeleton Remote episode.

As for other things...

-The Ice King in Adventure time is an allegory for Alzheimer's

-MLP & Steven universe touch on various issues of emotional & mental well being. Plus SU has been promoting LBGTQ/Body positivity

-We Bare Bears fights against racism by naturally incorporating people of all colors/ethnicities into the cast/background.

-Gumball has bluntly honest and savage sociopolitical commentary.

Modern cartoons are trying to teach kids the importance of empathy, kindness and how to understand and use your emotions in a positive way so hopefully not as many grow up to be narrow-minded sociopaths as so many in the various generations that came before them are. I for one commend that!

Not to mention theimportance of critical thinking and intra/introspective analysis of ones self and the world around then

 

[ToonsJazzLover]

I'm in the minority that doesn't seem to mind comedies being the main genre for most American cartoons. But I will admit that they need to try out other genres every now and then. at the same time, I don't think not all cartoons not need to be mature in order to be watchable or have enough emotional depth.